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Post by phil on Aug 6, 2022 17:07:42 GMT
<<Posts moved from Elizabeth Line (CrossRail) opened 24th May 2022 thread - goldenarrow>>
I presume the E.Line has settled into routine by now. Has it become obvious why such limited connection to Barbican station has been provided? Is it signed for passengers usage?
Mainly cost.
Given there is interchange with the subsurface lines at Farringdon and Moorgate / Liverpool Street then there is no real need for a large volume connection to the sub surface lines at Barbican as well.
Of course in an ideal world the crossrail works would have seen a western step free entrance / exit added to the existing Barbican station (thus helping with linkage between the two), but given the financial problems the project has encountered I can see why Crossrail would have wanted to steer clear of getting involved.
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Post by Chris L on Aug 6, 2022 20:45:06 GMT
Of course in an ideal world the crossrail works would have seen a western step free entrance / exit added to the existing Barbican station (thus helping with linkage between the two), but given the financial problems the project has encountered I can see why Crossrail would have wanted to steer clear of getting involved. The new eastern entrance/exit for the Elizabeth line at Farringdon is very close to Barbican station at street level and has lifts and escalators. Mod edit [Antharro]: Quote partially removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread. |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 6, 2022 21:13:22 GMT
Of course in an ideal world the crossrail works would have seen a western step free entrance / exit added to the existing Barbican station (thus helping with linkage between the two), but given the financial problems the project has encountered I can see why Crossrail would have wanted to steer clear of getting involved. So why did they provide any connection at all? What purpose does it serve? It's almost a secret connection! Mod edit [Antharro]: Quote partially removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread. |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 6, 2022 21:29:40 GMT
Place needs a more prominent sign, that's for sure. There's one next to the entrance, but it's not really visible from the south side.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 7, 2022 0:24:59 GMT
So why did they provide any connection at all? What purpose does it serve? It's almost a secret connection! It provides step-free access to the westbound SSR at Barbican station for relatively little cost, benefiting those who use the station. Is it as useful as a full-connection? No. Is it therefore useless? Also no. It's only secret if you think everything not shown on the tube map is secret, it's signed at the station. Mods: we've got overlapping conversations about specific features at Barbican and Romford, perhaps these could be split to separate threads to avoid confusion and aid future discovery? |
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Post by d7666 on Aug 7, 2022 14:03:24 GMT
Has it become obvious why such limited connection to Barbican station has been provided? Is it signed for passengers usage? Mainly cost.
Given there is interchange with the subsurface lines at Farringdon and Moorgate / Liverpool Street then there is no real need for a large volume connection to the sub surface lines at Barbican as well. Yes. This is similar to 2 x Edgware Road stations. There is no need for interconnecting the Bakerloo station with the SSL station as there are adjacent interchanges in either directions at Paddington (admittedly klunky) and Baker Street. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 8, 2022 17:50:27 GMT
]Yes. This is similar to 2 x Edgware Road stations. There is no need for interconnecting the Bakerloo station with the SSL station as there are adjacent interchanges in either directions at Paddington (admittedly klunky) and Baker Street. I could see a benefit in an interchange passageway, as it would solve the dilemma of going to the wrong station. However (please take a sharp intake of breath) its quite a walk between the two stations, so maybe some sort of powered transport would be useful? Moving walkway? Demand responsive automated mini train? LOL Oh and there is a question of finance. And lack of. This is why its very unlikely that anything will actually be done! Maybe what would solve this would be a new Tube line with exits to one of the two stations at each end of the platforms. |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 8, 2022 19:02:51 GMT
So why did they provide any connection at all? What purpose does it serve? It's almost a secret connection! It provides step-free access to the westbound SSR at Barbican station for relatively little cost, benefiting those who use the station. Is it as useful as a full-connection? No. Is it therefore useless? Also no. It's only secret if you think everything not shown on the tube map is secret, it's signed at the station. This makes sense, providing step-free access for the Circle platform for people to/from Barbican area. Those requiring the outer rail platform will need to over-ride to Farringdon/Moorgate where step-free interchange of direction is provided. But is it signed as such, or just a connection to the Elizabeth Line? |
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Post by t697 on Aug 8, 2022 19:50:07 GMT
Definte decision not to 'promote' it on S stock CIS either. So it isn't mentioned in the announcements. You get Elizabeth line in the interchange announcements for Liverpool St, Moorgate and Farringdon each both directions.
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Post by Chris L on Aug 8, 2022 19:50:13 GMT
It provides step-free access to the westbound SSR at Barbican station for relatively little cost, benefiting those who use the station. Is it as useful as a full-connection? No. Is it therefore useless? Also no. It's only secret if you think everything not shown on the tube map is secret, it's signed at the station. This makes sense, providing step-free access for the Circle platform for people to/from Barbican area. Those requiring the outer rail platform will need to over-ride to Farringdon/Moorgate where step-free interchange of direction is provided. But is it signed as such, or just a connection to the Elizabeth Line? The step free access is only from the platform. Anyone from the Barbican area just has a slightly longer walk to the new eastern entrance to Farringdon which is step free from street to train. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 8, 2022 23:44:19 GMT
The new eastern entrance to Farringdon which provides the step-free access to Barbican's westbound platform; walking through the Elizabeth line platforms to reach the Farringdon westbound platform is a bit counter-intuitive, no?
Remember not all disabilities are visible, and not all people who may require step-free access necessarily need level boarding. (Notwithstanding the fact that we *should*, in an ideal world, have level boarding everywhere.)
As others have said - why *not* have a lift at Barbican?
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Post by 35b on Aug 9, 2022 6:53:35 GMT
The new eastern entrance to Farringdon which provides the step-free access to Barbican's westbound platform; walking through the Elizabeth line platforms to reach the Farringdon westbound platform is a bit counter-intuitive, no? Remember not all disabilities are visible, and not all people who may require step-free access necessarily need level boarding. (Notwithstanding the fact that we *should*, in an ideal world, have level boarding everywhere.) As others have said - why *not* have a lift at Barbican? Because choices need to be made on priorities? One of the weak spots in the Elizabeth Line stations, IMHO, is the attempt to create multiple interchanges and exits. I used Liverpool Street to change to the Northern Line, and wished I’d not bothered by the time I’d walked round the houses within the station. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 9, 2022 10:50:40 GMT
In the grand scheme of the project providing a lift at Barbican where there was a concourse almost directly below the platform is a no-brainer. The additional cost is negligible for a real terms benefit.
Likewise, for some, the Liverpool Street to Moorgate interchange will be helpful and reduce journey times.
This thread has an awful lot of ‘well it’s of no use to me so I don’t see why it should be provided’, an attitude which frankly stinks.
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Post by Chris L on Aug 9, 2022 12:23:10 GMT
The new eastern entrance to Farringdon which provides the step-free access to Barbican's westbound platform; walking through the Elizabeth line platforms to reach the Farringdon westbound platform is a bit counter-intuitive, no? Remember not all disabilities are visible, and not all people who may require step-free access necessarily need level boarding. (Notwithstanding the fact that we *should*, in an ideal world, have level boarding everywhere.) As others have said - why *not* have a lift at Barbican? Because choices need to be made on priorities? One of the weak spots in the Elizabeth Line stations, IMHO, is the attempt to create multiple interchanges and exits. I used Liverpool Street to change to the Northern Line, and wished I’d not bothered by the time I’d walked round the houses within the station. I have been to the Oval several times recently to watch cricket. I previously had to use Southeastern services Woolwich Arsenal to London Bridge and the Northern line. The walk between lines at London Bridge is long. I now use the Elizabeth line from Woolwich to Liverpool Street/Moorgate which is far quicker overall. You do have the option to use the escalators to the Moorgate ticket hall and the stairs and escalator down to the Northern line. After the game the 5 minute service on the Elizabeth line helps get me home in less than an hour including a bus from Woolwich. |
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Post by d7666 on Aug 9, 2022 16:04:14 GMT
]Yes. This is similar to 2 x Edgware Road stations. There is no need for interconnecting the Bakerloo station with the SSL station as there are adjacent interchanges in either directions at Paddington (admittedly klunky) and Baker Street. I could see a benefit in an interchange passageway, as it would solve the dilemma of going to the wrong station. However (please take a sharp intake of breath) its quite a walk between the two stations, so maybe some sort of powered transport would be useful? Moving walkway? Demand responsive automated mini train? LOL Oh and there is a question of finance. And lack of. This is why its very unlikely that anything will actually be done! Maybe what would solve this would be a new Tube line with exits to one of the two stations at each end of the platforms. by extension then, why not connect Bayswater with Queensway, or similar , or TaDa! Paddington H&C with Paddington Wimbleware just in case someone goes to the wrong one ? There is a limit to where this is sensible and nonsensical . I’d venture to suggest spending millions (for it be that much) on dedicated passageways between nearby stations just in case the odd potential passenger goes to the wrong one is nonsensical. While I can see part of your post is in jest, in other places it is not |
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Post by jimbo on Aug 9, 2022 20:37:30 GMT
It is crazy to have two stations some distance apart with the same name! But this has been tolerated for some time now! The one not on Edgware Road ought to be renamed, but that is on the most lines and a terminating point so would require most widely sign revisions at great cost. The time to rename the Bakerloo station was when it was closed for some time for lift renewal, which caused sign revision throughout the line, but that was missed. Maybe next time?
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Post by d7666 on Aug 9, 2022 21:50:52 GMT
It is crazy to have two stations some distance apart with the same name! Is it ? Why ? Paddington and Paddington. Hammersmith and Hammersmith. Waterloo and Waterloo. Queens Park and Queens Park. etc etc That some of those examples are one in London and one out of London station is irrelevant - they are both the same name with no further identifiers. Does not matter if the distance between them is yards or 100s of miles (a) those who know, KNOW and (b) those that don't, or can't be bothered to find out, you have no hope with anyway, so why pander to them? Are you going to suggest renaming one of the Hammersmith stations just because they are apart ? To what name ? Ditto question Paddington. Or the south bank end of Blackfriars just in case someone turns up there for the District Line and has no ticket for the main line station ? or that Acton Bridge is nowhere near Acton | East | South | WEst | North | Town | MainLine | Central ? etc |
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Post by brigham on Aug 10, 2022 7:32:48 GMT
It was BR policy upon Nationalisation not to have two stations with the same name, which led to the re-naming of one of the New Cross stations (I can't remember which).
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Post by jimbo on Aug 10, 2022 7:42:18 GMT
Emergency services would prefer no duplication, e.g. brief phone call: accident outside Edgware Road Tube Station! Shepherds Bush was eventually fixed, and new Wood Lane did not duplicate White City as in the past.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Aug 10, 2022 8:10:36 GMT
What is "Paddington Wimbleware" that d7666 is referring to?
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Post by d7666 on Aug 10, 2022 9:51:50 GMT
What is "Paddington Wimbleware" that d7666 is referring to? WIMBLEdon - EdgWARE Road (as in the Paddington platforms served). |
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Post by Tom on Aug 10, 2022 9:58:56 GMT
Whilst I don't wish to reopen the whole 'Wimbleware' debate, I should point out that it isn't known by that name anywhere outside a small part of the enthusiast community.
They are generally referred to by Train Operators as simply "Edgware Roads" or "Locals".
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Post by 35b on Aug 10, 2022 10:17:46 GMT
In the grand scheme of the project providing a lift at Barbican where there was a concourse almost directly below the platform is a no-brainer. The additional cost is negligible for a real terms benefit. Likewise, for some, the Liverpool Street to Moorgate interchange will be helpful and reduce journey times. This thread has an awful lot of ‘well it’s of no use to me so I don’t see why it should be provided’, an attitude which frankly stinks. I’ve worked on plenty of business IT projects, and every single one of them has dumped scope that has been a “no brainer” in “the overall scheme of things”. Ultimately, every project needs to be shaped to fit within the available funding, and prioritisation decisions do have to be made. The alternative to that prioritisation is frequently the cancellation of the project. Whether this facility on this project falls within that category may be open to debate - though I note that Farringdon is not generally presented as having an interchange with Barbican. |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Aug 10, 2022 10:28:05 GMT
Thank you, Tom, Administrator
So, "Paddington Wimbleware" refers to two surface platforms at Paddington.
Crazy.
Telepathy is a skill I have not developed.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 10, 2022 11:24:01 GMT
Thank you, Tom, Administrator So, "Paddington Wimbleware" refers to two surface platforms at Paddington. Specifically, the District/Circle platforms as opposed to the Hammersmith & City (suburban) station. |
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Post by Chris L on Aug 10, 2022 13:05:46 GMT
I note that Farringdon is not generally presented as having an interchange with Barbican. Not as an interchange but the eastern entrance/exit at Farringdon Elizabeth line is only around 100 yards from the Barbican station entrance exit. Mod edit [Antharro]: Quote partially removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread. |
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Post by tedbarclay on Aug 10, 2022 13:17:47 GMT
It was BR policy upon Nationalisation not to have two stations with the same name, which led to the re-naming of one of the New Cross stations (I can't remember which). New Cross Gate was renamed (from New Cross) in July 1923 as part of the Southern Railway's rationalisation of station names. |
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 10, 2022 16:28:00 GMT
by extension then, why not connect Bayswater with Queensway, or similar , or TaDa! Paddington H&C with Paddington Wimbleware just in case someone goes to the wrong one ? There is a limit to where this is sensible and nonsensical . I’d venture to suggest spending millions (for it be that much) on dedicated passageways between nearby stations just in case the odd potential passenger goes to the wrong one is nonsensical. While I can see part of your post is in jest, in other places it is not Ultimately I'd do this at Edgware Road because the confusion from two stations at different locations having the same name has seen me come a cropper - go to the wrong station, be unable to find the one I want, etc. Paddington is a different story, and maybe if anything it should be either Bishops Road for Paddington or Paddington Suburban plus Paddington Wimbleware. (Not Praed Street for Paddington because the Bakerloo being part of this station would create further confusion and this station is closer to the mainline station concourse). The other examples that you quote have different names and hence, despite being close to each other have their own identities. As an aside, I've had a similar-ish problem at Liverpool Street station - decades ago I was going to meet some cousins at the ticket hall. I tried to tell them that we were to meet at the British Railways ticket hall near to platform 18 but they did not understand even the concept of a large station having multiple ticket halls, let alone there being at least six 'ticket halls' at the one station. I might as well have been speaking in the proverbial 'double dutch'. (2x BR near platforms 1 and 18 and 4x LT - one with passimeters below Broad Street stn and with single bore escalators to the Central line; the main ticket sales area that still exists today; one on a ramp to the road which I think is called Liverpool Street ... this was reached via the steps at the eastern end of the subsurface platforms; and finally at the entrance to the shopping arcade which was reached via steps midway along the subsurface platforms) |
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Post by Tom on Aug 10, 2022 22:47:34 GMT
Paddington is a different story, and maybe if anything it should be either Bishops Road for Paddington or Paddington Suburban plus Paddington Wimbleware. They are internally still known as Paddington (Suburban) and Paddington (Circle), though the Circle part is sometimes omitted. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 11, 2022 0:28:45 GMT
Paddington (Main) cropped up quite a bit within service control too, as another name for the Circle station, even amongst some of the more old-school controllers and signallers.
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