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Post by johnlinford on Nov 10, 2022 22:11:27 GMT
While I agree with you Tom, the DLR is a key east London linking Stratford, Canary Wharf, Greenwich and the Excel. This was the thinking behind my “inner London” map - here’s everywhere you might want to go as a tourist, and which line goes to Gatwick, Luton, City or Heathrow.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 11, 2022 2:30:17 GMT
My view is that the people who most benefit from it are those unfamiliar with London, who will primarily be tourists or other visitors. Bearing in mind that many of them wouldn't go outside the central area, is there really a need to show DLR or Trams? Trams are arguable, but for tourists the DLR, Overground and Elizabeth line are no different to tube lines from a practical point of view. Canary Wharf, Greenwich, Stratford, Custom House and London City Airport are destinations of at least equal importance to the likes of Camden, Shepherd's Bush, Hammersmith and Wembley. For a central area map, my limits would be as on the map below. It looks very messy like this, but obviously a proper map would adjust everything to make best use of the space.  Looking at it again though, I'm not sure that anything south of West Brompton, or north of Willesden Junction Finsbury Park, or Hackney Downs (LO) is needed? Belsize Park definitely isn't needed, so could be omitted if that helps clarity in that part of the map, similarly Surrey Quays. Chalk Farm is needed because Camden Town station can't cope with the crowds, Prince Regent is needed for Excel East.
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Post by d7666 on Nov 11, 2022 3:19:58 GMT
I think the key is stations named after precise locations, even if that means two names (Monument / Bank). .... Davies Street / Hannover Square, Dean Street / St. Giles, Farringdon / Long Lane and Moorfields / Broadgate with the respective subscript additions of Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road and Liverpool Street are arguably better designations for Liz-line locations. .... But, have a look at Liverpool Street and try to figure out how a very occasional visitor to London from East Anglia can use the current map perambulate with confidence at Liverpool Street in a wheelchair. (Incidentally, calling the Crossrail station there Moorfields / Broadgate .... is it time to simplify the station names as well as the map? Baffled. You are suggesting dual names on an already cluttered map ? But later ask if it is time to simplyfy ? Yet I see not where you introduce any simplification just adding confusion. Oxford Street -> Oxford / Bond ? For the current Bond Street station ? Does that not then confuse the unwary [for this is the target audience] with adjacent Oxford Circus - or too make that one Oxford / Regent ? So then confuse with Regents Park, and so on. And => the Central line then has consecutive stations Oxford / Marble, Oxford / Bond, Oxford / Regent, Oxford / CharingCross!! => very helpful. Not. And won't calling something Moorfields / Broad gate enter into confusion with Moorgate - with which it is an interchange. Sorry but renaming stations just to fit a topological diagram is not an answer. The mobility access information on the current map is not intended to give guidance on HOW to navigate within a station merely that navigation is possible. |
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Post by brigham on Nov 11, 2022 8:45:34 GMT
A map specifically designed for those who, for whatever reason, can't tackle long walks, stairs, escalators and the like, would be a great boon.
Road maps showing routes free of low bridges are available, for those unable to access less than 16'6", and are highly popular in the road transport industry.
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 11, 2022 10:11:42 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 11, 2022 12:12:56 GMT
The step-free tube guide is a good thing that should be promoted and available equally as widely as the main tube map, but it doesn't cater to those who can handle escalators but not stairs, nor those who can handle steps but not long walks. The point is to show all that on one map is not possible, so there needs to be a series of accessibility maps, so there is no need to have the misleadingly oversimplified accessibility information on the main map.
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Post by Chris L on Nov 11, 2022 19:03:36 GMT
The step-free tube guide is a good thing that should be promoted and available equally as widely as the main tube map, but it doesn't cater to those who can handle escalators but not stairs, nor those who can handle steps but not long walks. The point is to show all that on one map is not possible, so there needs to be a series of accessibility maps, so there is no need to have the misleadingly oversimplified accessibility information on the main map. This level of detail really needs to available with options on the online journey planner. |
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Post by d7666 on Nov 11, 2022 22:34:48 GMT
A map specifically designed for those who How far do you want to go with this ? I am strongly left handed and prefer handrails on the left when needing them, especially since breaking right elbow a few years back, but standing on the right on an escalator means hold on the right. Stairs are random dependant on passenger flows, despite what they may or may not be marked as up or down sides. Can I have a map for my needs ? How about a map for those who need to access toilets every so often (i.e. more often than people without issues) so they can work out how long the total trip takes including access / interchange time ? How about adding out of station touch out / touch in stations - none of that is anywhere on "tube maps". I dare say another minority group would like a map that shows stations that often have open ticket gates or some other touch in / touch out facility that enables fraud somehow. How about adding the information about which stations are overly hot ? And so on. I don't say the current tube map is ideal - but I do not see a better way of doing it. The critics are all saying it is too confusing yet no-one offers details on how they would do it. Except to split maps by function, but even then they don't say what each functional map contains - if it is literally one map per function, is the casual traveller going to fafff with different sheets of paper for lines + stations, interchanges, walking routes, accessable routes, accessable stations, fares zones, staions index + grid <<<< that's 7 sheets for a start. Imagine trying to work out the Kings Cross / St.Pancras nexus with 7 different sheets of paper ? I sort of like the principle of a seperate central zone(s) map along the lines suggested by ChrisM, but then that introduces the problem of how you bridge between stations on this map with one not or someone from outside to outside passing through and interchanging in central. Do you have one map for central, one map for non central then a third one with both ? In the former case you have fafff, in latter case, you have already got both. |
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Post by Chris L on Nov 12, 2022 8:18:13 GMT
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Post by brigham on Nov 12, 2022 8:30:52 GMT
A map specifically designed for those who How far do you want to go with this ? I am strongly left handed and prefer handrails on the left when needing them... Can I have a map for my needs ? Yes. Yes, you certainly DO need a map of your own. In fact, a cash-strapped transport operator needs to prioritise the installation of 'accessible' handrails for your use. The only alternative to a 'sinister-compliant' map would be to place the information on the current one! |
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Nov 13, 2022 13:28:02 GMT
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Post by trt on Nov 14, 2022 10:19:32 GMT
TBH the printed maps are important and DO have a function. CSAs hand them out to kids and tell them they're in charge of making sure everyone in their group gets to where they are going. Works wonders!
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Post by brigham on Nov 15, 2022 8:32:09 GMT
... CSAs hand them out to kids and tell them they're in charge of making sure everyone in their group gets to where they are going. Works wonders! Sounds praepostorous! |
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Post by selbiehouse on Nov 17, 2022 13:34:44 GMT
I can only assume that the pocket version of this map is 'Private, not for publication' as I have never seen one for the taking when passing through Underground stations.
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Post by Chris M on Nov 17, 2022 13:55:01 GMT
You just have to find a station that has had a delivery recently. Each station gets a delivery of the map when it identifies that its stocks are getting low, then continues putting out that map until it has used all of its stock, when it orders more, etc. I presume each delivery is of a whole number of standard-size boxes, but how many maps are in each box and how many boxes are delivered each time I don't know (the latter may vary). So a quiet station that had a delivery just before a new map was issued will not have copies of the latest map for quite some time (possibly ever if it's a short-interval map), while stations that need more maps just after a printing will have the latest issue much sooner. I know of no way to predict which stations are which, beyond stations that serve large numbers of visitors to London being statistically more likely to give out more maps than average and stations that primarily serve commuters will be least likely to have the new maps.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 1, 2023 0:11:23 GMT
A February edition of the tube map has been published, presumably online only as the only changes are:
1. Bank loses its dagger (which said the Northern line would become step-free in December 2022)
2. The date has been updated from November 2022 to February 2023 in the three places it appears.
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trainwizard
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Post by trainwizard on Mar 1, 2023 6:53:51 GMT
It seems they have also updated some toilet information on the back.
I wonder when the physical map will be updated. I assume it'll be after Brent Cross West opens and the step-free works at Knightsbridge are complete. Is there anything sooner? I doubt Luton DART's opening next week will affect the tube map.
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