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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2007 23:28:49 GMT
I was on an end car "234" on the Piccadilly tonight, and found several of the Piccadilly Line map stickers slightly defaced! The letters "g*y" were written with an arrow pointing to Arsenal station on the map! Die-hard footie fans...
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2007 19:35:57 GMT
Surely a reason to rename it Gillespie Road then?!?!?
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 2, 2007 14:45:09 GMT
It will never be renamed. It will stay Arsenal for as long as the station is still in use.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 2, 2007 22:11:31 GMT
The letters "g*y" were written with an arrow pointing to Arsenal station on the map! On the principle 'it takes one to recognize one', it was probably Spurs fans...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2007 22:15:02 GMT
As much as i detest defacement, they have a point although they could have used a better choice of words...! i have actually seen similar defacings to west ham, even though thier stadium is at upton park! never seen any for fulham broadway though!!
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Post by jamesb on Jun 4, 2007 19:16:23 GMT
I personally feel very uncomfortable using or going along with (or advertising) that meaning of 'gay' in any way shape or form. I find it quite offensive.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2007 19:17:47 GMT
thats what i mean, considering in what they put it in reference to was totally wrong!
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Post by jamesb on Jun 4, 2007 19:35:43 GMT
I can't quite see why its an 'interesting defacement' nor why it is of relevance to anything. There are items of defacement in nearly every tube carriage, so why is this particular one so interesting?
There are other words, for example those which make reference to people of different races, which I've seen scribbled on tube carriages but which I'm sure people wouldn't feel happy discussing the implied meanings of, so I am not sure why people feel so comfortable talking about this one?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jun 4, 2007 20:08:37 GMT
I think pacific was just trying to stir up a little light hearted football related banter and meant no offense. Besides which it all depends on your own interpretation of the word, perhaps the vandal commiting the criminal damage in this instance was an Arsenal fan on his way home from a nice day at the football and was expressing his general demeanor? I think we should start taking back the English language from the bigots (never mind reclaim the streets!) and begin using words such as this in their intended and literal context.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 4, 2007 21:44:50 GMT
I think we should start taking back the English language from the bigots (never mind reclaim the streets!) and begin using words such as this in their intended and literal context. That could start a rant: as well as gay, I'm fed up with the golf commentators having to refer to a golfer playing a round with another as his 'playing partner' since 'partner' is (according to the BBC) now confined to a person who is a co-habitee.......
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jun 8, 2007 22:54:28 GMT
I'm with you Phil, it is getting out of hand (sorry, protruding limb!).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 5:57:30 GMT
Trains carrying offensive graffiti should be withdrawn from service immediately. This is LUL policy and also individual common sense so as not to give the mindless perpetrators any sort of creedence for it. Whether it's a carriage long mural or a bit of biro on one of the maps, if it's offensive it's out of service. I've never heard of a case where a driver has been in trouble for doing this. On the subject of this, a few years ago there were a lot of stickers finding their way onto trains for the "British Nazi Party" with various German Eagles, swastikas and racist slogans on them. I saw them a few times, just wandering whether anyone else saw them? Not seen any about for a couple of years now though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 7:47:23 GMT
Trains carrying offensive graffiti should be withdrawn from service immediately. I find it rather ridiculous to withdraw an entire train from service because someone has written the word gay on a tube map. If an operator discovers this why not simply deface the defacement, scribble over the top etc. Although, I completely agree with full train length graffiti which is offensive or wet, this will be photographed by the btp. Biro defacements are highly unlikely to be photographed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 8:19:39 GMT
Carry a pack of self adhesive labels and stick them over the written defacements...
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 10, 2007 12:36:36 GMT
Carry a pack of self adhesive labels and stick them over the written defacements... It would be the obvious answer. Probably save a small fortune as well.....
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 10, 2007 12:39:45 GMT
It would be the obvious answer. Which explains why nobody has done it.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jun 10, 2007 14:10:11 GMT
In the case of customer information signage (such as line diagrams) they would need to be replaced rather than blocked out with stickers. In addition it doesn't really matter if it is graffiti or a sticker over graffiti, it is still not in keeping with our desired corporate image. Defacements of any kind do not send out the right message to our customers. Prakash is quite right though, it is LU policy to withdraw a train if the graffiti is offensive (racist slogans/swear words etc). If unsure, a Train Operator can call for the Duty Manager (Trains) to attend and make a final decision. This decision would be based on the severity of the graffiti coupled with the overrall needs of the service/travelling public.
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 10, 2007 14:18:51 GMT
Why must it be replaced? I doubt it looks very much better, and is definitely more expensive.
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Post by prjb on Jun 10, 2007 14:28:33 GMT
If an in-car line diagram has suffered from graffiti that is not removable by cleaning then it would need to be replaced rather than having stickers stuck over the top. The stickers discussed here would need to be blank (as you can't guarantee where the graffiti will appear!) and would therefore block out customer information. Another reason for replacing is that blank stickers would only attract more graffiti. If your discussing putting pre-printed stickers over signage with graffiti then whilst this is possible it would mean holding stickers of all shapes and sizes, in the case of stations. Also stickers tend to attract attention for the wrong sorts of reasons and people just feel the need to peel them off. In the case of trains it would be pointless as the in-car info is generally a sticker anyway!
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 10, 2007 18:12:34 GMT
It does seem rather expensive to withdraw an entire train from service to replace a tube map though.
That said, half the fun has gone since the introduction of that voice thingy and the dot-matrix within the carriages. "The next station is Green Park".... Yes, I know, I can see it on the map!!
More annoying, "This train is heading to Cockfosters"... Yep, it's N/B, the header said so, and so did the dot-matrix on the platform, not to mention the maps on the platform.
Yes I suppose everytning has to be user friendly, but for the average commuter who uses the system every day, they must be quite fed up with it all.....
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Post by prjb on Jun 10, 2007 19:36:41 GMT
It does seem rather expensive to withdraw an entire train from service to replace a tube map though. Obviously, I used the line diagram as an example - in reality the DMT may choose to remove the map and keep the train in service where possible. The point was that if graffiti is offensive then LU's policy is to remove the train from service and have the graffiti removed. That said, half the fun has gone since the introduction of that voice thingy and the dot-matrix within the carriages. "The next station is Green Park".... Yes, I know, I can see it on the map!! More annoying, "This train is heading to Cockfosters"... Yep, it's N/B, the header said so, and so did the dot-matrix on the platform, not to mention the maps on the platform. Yes I suppose everytning has to be user friendly, but for the average commuter who uses the system every day, they must be quite fed up with it all..... I accept that the Customer Information System (CIS) can be annoying but I suspect that regular commuters soon 'tune out' and pay the announcements little or no attention. In addition new build trains are required to meet the rather stringent Rail Vehicle Accessibilty Regulations (RVAR), it's a bit like the DDA for trains. RVAR dictates that any customer information must be given both audibly and visually. Whilst older trains are not covered by RVAR, LU still try to meet the spirit of the regulation when refurbishing our stock ('D' Stock as an example).
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Post by c5 on Jun 10, 2007 19:58:35 GMT
It does seem rather expensive to withdraw an entire train from service to replace a tube map though. That said, half the fun has gone since the introduction of that voice thingy and the dot-matrix within the carriages. "The next station is Green Park".... Yes, I know, I can see it on the map!! More annoying, "This train is heading to Cockfosters"... Yep, it's N/B, the header said so, and so did the dot-matrix on the platform, not to mention the maps on the platform. Yes I suppose everytning has to be user friendly, but for the average commuter who uses the system every day, they must be quite fed up with it all..... But on some-lines the Dot Matrix is wrong - either because it is defective are can't be changed at that location
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Post by SE13 on Jun 10, 2007 20:06:22 GMT
Well, it does my head in, and I'm only on the system about four times a year these days.
Perhaps it's because I have a stupidly advanced knowledge of tube lines, station locations and so on, but that's a sign of a mis-spent youth!
While I agree that it might well be useful for a tourist, at the end of the day, if they don't know London, surely it would be more confusing? Yes we all know where Leicester Square is, but for the tourist, it's a jumble of places surely? And if thats where they were heading, wouldn't that stupid voice stating that we are heading to Cockfosters/Heathrow/Uxbridge not put the fear of God up them?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2007 20:14:47 GMT
highbury stadium was the sole purpose of london underground not closing the station no one realy uses it any more arsenal is probably next on lu's hit list and will probably close with in the next few years (by the way im a true gunner so i would advise people not to make pointless remarks like that)
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 10, 2007 20:28:12 GMT
Arsenal Station is only a couple of extra minutes walk comparing Highbury and Ashburton Grove. Turn right out of the station, and walk around the corner, as opposed to walking almost into The North Bank.
The station will NEVER be renamed all the time it is in service. There was some talk of moving the station slightly to run underneath Ashburton Grove, but I really can't see this happening now.
It would need someone with real Picc knowledge to confirm that the line runs under the new ground, but as far as I knew with the original plans, there would have to be an extra curve built just before Arsenal Tube N/B, and that Arsenal would then become a ghost station.
Gillespie Road Tube vanished over 70 years ago, and will remain in the archives of the original Piccadilly Line maps....
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Post by Tom on Jun 10, 2007 21:46:15 GMT
Gillespie Road Tube vanished over 70 years ago, and will remain in the archives of the original Piccadilly Line maps.... ...and on the diagram in Earl's Court control room.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 0:23:23 GMT
...and on the platform tiles.
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Post by sm on Jun 11, 2007 5:05:54 GMT
If you ask me, 'Arsenal' is a defacement of the original name of Gillespie Road, but alas, i digress.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 5:26:49 GMT
It does seem rather expensive to withdraw an entire train from service to replace a tube map though. I agree, and while there are certain drivers who will jump at the chance to take a train out for minor/negligable reasons, something like offensive graffiti is an extremely valid reason. However, as a driver you are responsible for your passengers' safety, so in the same way that you would chuck off someone smoking, or with a bike (in the peak ssl - all times deep level), or call the police/staff etc for a gang of lads causing bother to the punters etc, you should take a train out for offensive graffiti. If my passengers feel they are being racially, sexually, homophobically harassed/attacked while they are on my train then I have not properly fulfilled my duty of care to them. Keeping trains out until they are cleaned also sends the message to the perpetrators that their handiwork will not be seen on a travelling art gallery and their efforts were in vain.
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Post by c5 on Jun 11, 2007 7:29:59 GMT
It does seem rather expensive to withdraw an entire train from service to replace a tube map though. I agree, and while there are certain drivers who will jump at the chance to take a train out for minor/negligable reasons, something like offensive graffiti is an extremely valid reason. However, as a driver you are responsible for your passengers' safety, so in the same way that you would chuck off someone smoking, or with a bike (in the peak ssl - all times deep level), or call the police/staff etc for a gang of lads causing bother to the punters etc, you should take a train out for offensive graffiti. If my passengers feel they are being racially, sexually, homophobically harassed/attacked while they are on my train then I have not properly fulfilled my duty of care to them. Keeping trains out until they are cleaned also sends the message to the perpetrators that their handiwork will not be seen on a travelling art gallery and their efforts were in vain. Luckily LUL still does this, unlike on the National Rail, whee they just carry on!
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