Charing X Dissused

[Hutch]

Colin, the platform was heaving with people who could hardly move. Whether they checked each individual car I could not tell. The SA certainly closed up the one car in the center of the train and he was communicating by hand with someone else towards the head of the train where I was - the driver perhaps. I imagine that the commercial pressure to get the train away is very strong and I am sure that it is possible that people could get overlooked. Overall, I was quite impressed with the efficiency of the operation both from a staff point of veiw and that of a co-operative public - both on a pretty full train and an equally full platform.

I fully understand the legal side of the story, the linkages to the safety case and I'd even earlier read the thread you refered to.

I can see that it is a subject close to your heart but I must caution you that capital letters and exclaimation marks can lead to elevated stress levels which are to be avoided in our health and safety conscious world.

[citysig]

During normal operation of the Jubilee (and the day you travelled was far from normal) the booked reversers at locations such as Wembley and Willesden are tipped-out very efficiently indeed.

Yes there is pressure to get the trains moved on, as there are others behind, but this pressure is very rarely the cause for over-carrying passengers. One of the most common causes is the passenger who decides to jump on at the last minute as the last set of doors is closed.

But despite the service pressure, there is far more pressure on staff to ensure trains are emptied properly.

Much as it may have seemed a quick tip-out and much as it may have seemed slightly chaotic, there were no over-carries on that day to Charing Cross.

[Hutch]

What was throwing the service out of whack that day, please Citysig? From the look of the platform, I'd say that one or two other trains had been tipped out just infront of mine.

[citysig]

If I am right in gathering it was probably friday you travelled, the list of things that went wrong that day is endless.

Without going into too much detail here, the line suffered a number of signalling failures both in the morning and evening peak periods, with little time for recovery in-between.

[Deleted]

OK..... i've skipped a page of this thread, but can the normal passenger (ie - me ) get down there and have a butchers at the platforms??

[Deleted]

sturdjos said:

OK..... i've skipped a page of this thread, but can the normal passenger (ie - me ) get down there and have a butchers at the platforms??

No.

[Deleted]

Oh Oh well ;D

[Deleted]

citysig said:

During normal operation of the Jubilee (and the day you travelled was far from normal) the booked reversers at locations such as Wembley and Willesden are tipped-out very efficiently indeed.

Is this LUL "efficiently" we are referring to here?

I've never seen a train be tipped out at Willesden Green faster than 65seconds, which is double the usual dwell time.

At Shibuya on the Ginza Line in Tokyo, I observed an almost full train be tipped out in 25 seconds, with one member of staff per car (6). Now that's efficiency!

[Deleted]

stephenk said:

I've never seen a train be tipped out at Willesden Green faster than 65seconds, which is double the usual dwell time.

At Shibuya on the Ginza Line in Tokyo, I observed an almost full train be tipped out in 25 seconds, with one member of staff per car (6). Now that's efficiency!

As we can't beat the Japanese I believe most trains will eventually run to Stanmore when platform 3 is opened.

[citysig]

stephenk said:

Is this LUL "efficiently" we are referring to here?

I've never seen a train be tipped out at Willesden Green faster than 65seconds, which is double the usual dwell time.

At Shibuya on the Ginza Line in Tokyo, I observed an almost full train be tipped out in 25 seconds, with one member of staff per car (6). Now that's efficiency!

Well good for them - if they really need that kind of performance and can afford all those staff.

65 seconds is fine by me. Anything up to 2 minutes is also acceptable for the timetable. What would be the point in having 7 staff available just for the purpose of tipping-out every 4th train. Good business sense? Would the public of London appreciate a further fares hike to pay for all these additional staff?

Let's not start a culture here of continually comparing us to other countries as I've seen elsewhere in the past.

For whatever these other networks claim to be, they all have failures, late running and periods of bad performance - just the media of their lands chooses to focus on other things. None of them utilise 143-year-old infrastructure and few of them are held to ransom by anything - governments, private fat cats etc.

[Deleted]

citysig said:

stephenk said:

Is this LUL "efficiently" we are referring to here?

I've never seen a train be tipped out at Willesden Green faster than 65seconds, which is double the usual dwell time.

At Shibuya on the Ginza Line in Tokyo, I observed an almost full train be tipped out in 25 seconds, with one member of staff per car (6). Now that's efficiency!

Well good for them - if they really need that kind of performance and can afford all those staff.

65 seconds is fine by me. Anything up to 2 minutes is also acceptable for the timetable. What would be the point in having 7 staff available just for the purpose of tipping-out every 4th train. Good business sense? Would the public of London appreciate a further fares hike to pay for all these additional staff?

Let's not start a culture here of continually comparing us to other countries as I've seen elsewhere in the past.

For whatever these other networks claim to be, they all have failures, late running and periods of bad performance - just the media of their lands chooses to focus on other things. None of them utilise 143-year-old infrastructure and few of them are held to ransom by anything - governments, private fat cats etc.

When the line is upgraded to 30+tph in a few years time, there will be less time to tip out, so 1.5-2 minute tip out times will be unacceptable. I understand that the plan is to send more trains to Stanmore instead of reversing at Willesden Green. This definately makes operational sense, but is it cost effective?

I'd be interested to know the difference in cost between paying for more tipping out staff at Willesden Green and Wembley Park, and the cost of running fairly empty trains to Stanmore, again with more staffing costs in terms of drivers, more electricity usage, and more rolling stock usage.

[citysig]

In a few year's time the Stanmore branch may have an increase in customers - who knows.

Whatever happens though, running all trains to Stanmore - regardless of how many people on them - is cheaper and more efficient than increasing staff numbers at Willesden Green or Wembley to tip trains out in 30 seconds. For a start the current is on anyway.

Even if we stay with the current arrangements, with careful timetabling it's quite simple to manage 2 minute tip-out times.

Don't lose sight of this 30tph thing. There may well be 30tph at Canary Wharf, but nobody said there would be for the whole line. Thinning the frequencies out north of Willesden gives you the recovery required for the reversers - just as now.

[Deleted]

metapprentice said:

sturdjos said:

OK..... i've skipped a page of this thread, but can the normal passenger (ie - me ) get down there and have a butchers at the platforms??

No.

They ain't that exciting to be honest, they're very much like other Jubilee platforms from Baker St to Green Park.
The one I want to see is Aldwych.........looks far more interesting!

[oliver]

On a slightly seperate note has anyone seen that Smint advert ... its a Jubilee 96TS at Charing X ...

just incase you wanted to know

[ttran]

citysig said:

None of them utilise 143-year-old infrastructure and few of them are held to ransom by anything - governments, private fat cats etc.

CityRail now utilises 151-year-old infrastructure and we're worse off than you!

[Phil]

ttran said:

CityRail now utilises 151-year-old infrastructure and we're worse off than you!

Wanna bet?

[citysig]

ttran said:

citysig said:

None of them utilise 143-year-old infrastructure and few of them are held to ransom by anything - governments, private fat cats etc.

CityRail now utilises 151-year-old infrastructure and we're worse off than you!

If you read all of what I said again, you will of course see how we are worse off than you. Your stuff may be older than ours but how about the rest of what we have ;D