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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 13:28:52 GMT
Regarding walking in tunnels to look for a train, the least thing to do safety wise would be to approach the train from the rear instead of from the front.
(And scare the hell out of the train that obviously didn't see you coming ;D)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 17:23:05 GMT
The deadmans device will be in line with other such devices fitted to LU tube stock. The driver will need to re-stroke or an alarm wil be sent to the control centre. Am I reading this right? We're going to have an OPO alarm like on the tube lines? Why do we on SSR suddenly need such an irritating thing?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 17:44:38 GMT
Control Centre can indeed broadcast a message [PA] to the passenger environment... there is indeed an OPO alarm in Manual... I too would be a little hesitant at walking down the track too, without first either shorting the tunnel wires, or getting station staff to throw the section switches!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 21:35:41 GMT
I have already put my case across for a right handed CTBC - and judging by the feedback I have recieved (very good BTW), I am the only driver on the whole of SSR who has done so! Come on colleagues!! - we need to stick together on this one and push for it, otherwise our future office could be less than perfect!! We could end up with somethin You porbably only like it on the right, because that is what you are used to. If the trains are going to be similar to a NR electrostar, the TBC will probably be on the left!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:22:47 GMT
How does the OPO alarm work on ATO stock?The CTBC isn't touched when the train is in auto. ATO stock do not have an alarm, I believe it is presumed the ATO will take the train to the next station in the case of an incapacitated driver where station staff can get assistance. (That said if the train is then in manual mode it doesn't quiet apply) Sub Surface stock do not have an alarm either, assistance can be provided by an adjacent train operator in the (mostly) twin track tunnels When in ATO the OPO alarm would not be operational, this is indeed the case on other stock when in ATO.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:23:44 GMT
I really want this cab to be right, it would be nothing short of a disgrace if we don't produce a decent office for the drivers. Despite the wishes and whines on here ....I have every faith in you sir !! Won't stop me trying to encourage it to be MY ideal office though ! lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I really must try to find time to contact the team properly rather than doing it all on here !!! Thank you mate, please do get in touch - you can influence the design on your new office!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:26:02 GMT
That's all very well,but supposing the T/Op became incapacitated somewhere like between Stratford-Mile End and the train fails to remotor after a signal stop,what happens then?I don't think you'd get many volunteers to walk up the track to the train,just in case it suddenly decides to start up again. For the upgraded and fully migrated SSR, the control centre can instigate a control ('code red') which will halt all trains in a particular area.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:30:23 GMT
Hmmmm, I feel you may have misunderstood me. When I refer to NR-style DSDs, I am referring to the driver's need to either push a foot pedal (i.e. in a locomotive) or press a button to acknowledge the DSD while the train is moving. If the DSD is not acknowledged the traction circuit is cut and the brakes are applied. Will the S stock DSD combine these two features? Oh, ok - sorry. There is a requirement placed on BTUK to provide such a device for the 'S' Stock when the train is in ATO. This has been requested by the TU rep's and we feel it isn't such a bad idea. BTUK will give LU a cost and we will then have to decide if there is a business case. If fitted to the final production trains this device will probably be in the form of a button rather than part of the existing CTBC.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:35:52 GMT
Regarding walking in tunnels to look for a train, the least thing to do safety wise would be to approach the train from the rear instead of from the front. (And scare the hell out of the train that obviously didn't see you coming ;D)Yes, quite. We would never approach an unsecured train without proper protection. The best form of protection is to have a secured train behind you, so you would travel to site and under rule, and then secure the train before proceeding forward. Additionally, we would never board a train which we couldn't prove was secure. An illuminated 'calling on' light gives us confidence that the train is not going to move.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:41:34 GMT
The deadmans device will be in line with other such devices fitted to LU tube stock. The driver will need to re-stroke or an alarm wil be sent to the control centre. Am I reading this right? We're going to have an OPO alarm like on the tube lines? Why do we on SSR suddenly need such an irritating thing? Yes you are reading that right. When in a manual driving mode all 'S' Stock will have an operational OPO alarm. The newest stock on the SSR is D78 and OPO alarms were not required back then because we did it manually (the device was refered to as a guard!). So, your not suddenly getting an OPO alarm - you are getting one with new 21st century trains that need to be ALARP (As Low As Reasonably Practicle)in safety terms. I can understand your scepticism but this type of device has got to be included.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 16, 2006 23:47:54 GMT
I have already put my case across for a right handed CTBC - and judging by the feedback I have recieved (very good BTW), I am the only driver on the whole of SSR who has done so! Come on colleagues!! - we need to stick together on this one and push for it, otherwise our future office could be less than perfect!! We could end up with somethin You porbably only like it on the right, because that is what you are used to. If the trains are going to be similar to a NR electrostar, the TBC will probably be on the left! Its not quite as simple as that, although you are correct - it probably will end up on the left. You could argue that NR do not have a deadmans device incorporated into their CTBC which must be held down when driving. You could also argue that as the 'S' Stock CTBC will not be notched (like a 'C' Stock for eg) there is a greater need for dexterity and as most people are more dexterous with there right hand then it would make sense to have a right hand CTBC. Before I hear cries of discrimination against those who are left handed, you could argue further that most left handed people have greater dexterity with their right hand than right handed people do with their left - mainly because left handed people have to put up with most things being designed for those who are right handed!! I have either heard or voiced every point there is to raise on the issue of left Vs right hand CTBC in the past few months!!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 17, 2006 1:50:34 GMT
You porbably only like it on the right, because that is what you are used to. If the trains are going to be similar to a NR electrostar, the TBC will probably be on the left! I drive more C stock than D stock these days (the curse of dead lates at Earls Court) Yes I am right handed, as are the majority of people - but I never used that angle when I sent my email full of ideas to the upgrades team. The points I raised concerned use of equipment in motion, such as window wipers, whistle, overload re-set, etc. Much of this equipment may appear on the front nearside corner post, and therefore cannot be operated if there is a need to cross arms.
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 17, 2006 9:19:39 GMT
The points I raised concerned use of equipment in motion, such as window wipers, whistle, overload re-set, etc. Much of this equipment may appear on the front nearside corner post, and therefore cannot be operated if there is a need to cross arms. I designed the D Stock cab - well I got £25 as a suggestion reward (it was almost a week's wages in those days) for the layout and general scope - including the TBC on the right and the comms equipment on the left, sloping gauges, parallel w/wiper, BR type cab seat etc. As a driver on the Met when the C Stock first arrived, I was appalled at the cab layout. It was worse than the A Stock. It was even worse than the CO/CP Stock. Coupled with dodgy braking and draughty cabs, it drove me nuts to go round it with a tape measure and work out all the dimensions required to get things into a reasonable working environment. I drew up a scheme and sent it to the LT Suggestion scheme, as it was then. I got the award from Jm McKinnon, who was DS then. His son also worked for LT. Although it was accepted and I got an award, it only got included in the next cab design because the late Bob Greenaway remembered it when the draughtsman doing the layout for the D Stock asked him a question about driving cabs. He had never been in one! So that how LU got the D Stock cab design.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Nov 17, 2006 9:50:36 GMT
Thanks TP! I remember now that Bob and I cabbed a 1973 Stock with Dave Mooney up to Arnos Grove, both of us being in suits. The "boss" at Wood Green who stuck his head through the door to speak to Dave did not know what to make of us...we looked very official so he avoided us! This would be late Seventies? I first sat in a D78 Stock cab when a train was stabled in Tower Hill Bay for the public to review. Dave M and I went to see it, and was genuinely impressed at the time. My immediate thought was that the cab seat moquette was the same as that in LT buses! However I found the "handle" logical cf. 1956/1959 and 1973 Stock. Then again I use a mouse left-handed now and yet I am right-handed!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2006 15:57:58 GMT
You porbably only like it on the right, because that is what you are used to. If the trains are going to be similar to a NR electrostar, the TBC will probably be on the left! I drive more C stock than D stock these days (the curse of dead lates at Earls Court) Yes I am right handed, as are the majority of people - but I never used that angle when I sent my email full of ideas to the upgrades team. The points I raised concerned use of equipment in motion, such as window wipers, whistle, overload re-set, etc. Much of this equipment may appear on the front nearside corner post, and therefore cannot be operated if there is a need to cross arms. I agree with Colin, it's not a question of being left or right handed. Fundamentally, if we are going to sit on the left then the TBC should be on the right. Even if all relevant equipment in the S stocks as built could be arranged to be easily reached with the right hand, what about all the inevitable later additions during the life of the train? The C stocks were bad enough to start with (especially those damn wipers!) but now look where the DVA has ended up!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Nov 17, 2006 21:02:02 GMT
Your right correct, it should not be about if your right or left handed. Rather, it should be about the best layout to suit the end user.
I am fighting for a right hand CTBC but will settle (in the absense of standards to back my arguement) for a left hand solution that meets your needs. If the handle does go on the left, then I for one am going to ensure that every last piece of equipment/controls located in that cab meets all human factors guidelines 100%. All items such as wiper controls etc will be located correctly or else!
There is a school of thought which says that as these trains are going to be ATO for the vast majority of their life then it would be better to have all the vital buttons and controls on the right. This means that when your sitting in your seat, in ATO, the switches etc that you need will be operated more intuitively.
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