Technical spec for 2009 and S stock

[Deleted]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else.
Found this on the Bombardier site, give tech specs for the 2009 and S stock.
www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id=1_0&lang=en&file=/en/1_0/1_1/1_1_2_17.jsp
Click on 'Technical data'.
Now if only it gave the car numbers for the 2009 stock, still looking for them!

[Colin]

Interesting to see that the S stock will be wider than the 09ts........which itself is wider than the 67ts.

[Deleted]

Also faster: 80km/h for the Victoria line. 100km/h for the SSR = 62mph. I like!

[dave1]

adw said:

Also faster: 80km/h for the Victoria line. 100km/h for the SSR = 62mph. I like!

That is very good specs for the vic. Maybe after the line upgrades and the new signalling, it will go 50mph. AS for the SSL i was expecting more since the line speed between Amersham and Harrow is 70mph for chiltern but 50mph on the A stock as of now. Im sure that the A stock went 60mph before.

[tubeprune]

colin said:

Interesting to see that the S stock will be wider than the 09ts........which itself is wider than the 67ts.

Er...all surface stock is wider than tube stock.

The 67TS is 2642mm wide and the BTUK site gives a width of 2602mm for the 2009TS.

[Deleted]

I must also admit to being surprised that the S stock will not have a top speed of 70mph. Given the magic inherent in modern traction packages I wonder why it is not possible to configure one to allow a top speed of 70mph with a reasonably good acceleration curve.

Besides, the Met Main used to be 70 in the Good Ole Days, and allowing 165s/168s and S stock to run at that speed would surely be beneficial to journey times.

[Ben]

Thats the down side of a 'one size' fits all approach. I think the 38ts had it right with two accelleration rates. If only that could be combined with ATO, so that the train automatically knows whether it should accelerate quickly for moderate speed, or accellerate slower but for an high speed

[Chris M]

That should be easy to do with ATO if I understand how it works correctly. You just need to program it with different codes for different acceleration rates.

[Deleted]

dave1 said:

That is very good specs for the vic. Maybe after the line upgrades and the new signalling, it will go 50mph. AS for the SSL i was expecting more since the line speed between Amersham and Harrow is 70mph for chiltern but 50mph on the A stock as of now. Im sure that the A stock went 60mph before.

North of Harrow where the line speeds are higher due to the aid of multi aspect signalling, the line speed used to be 60mph for both A stock and Chiltern. Now however it is 50mph for the A stock. The 60mph speed limit remains for Chiltern.

[Deleted]

metapprentice said:

dave1 said:

That is very good specs for the vic. Maybe after the line upgrades and the new signalling, it will go 50mph. AS for the SSL i was expecting more since the line speed between Amersham and Harrow is 70mph for chiltern but 50mph on the A stock as of now. Im sure that the A stock went 60mph before.

North of Harrow where the line speeds are higher due to the aid of multi aspect signalling, the line speed used to be 60mph for both A stock and Chiltern. Now however it is 50mph for the A stock. The 60mph speed limit remains for Chiltern.

It used to be 70 for the Chiltern.

[Oracle]

As I have said before we did an indicated 70 on the D Stock "METROLINER" tour on the run to Amersham. I always thought that A Stock used to run up to 70 but I must be mistaken.

[prjb]

jsp3970 said:

Now if only it gave the car numbers for the 2009 stock, still looking for them!

I know, I know!

I had my copy 'pinched' and I have asked the engineers to send me the details. Unfortunately they are busy and are not sure themselves where they have filed them! I will get them for you, eventually. Sorry.

[Colin]

tubeprune said:

colin said:

Interesting to see that the S stock will be wider than the 09ts........which itself is wider than the 67ts.

Er...all surface stock is wider than tube stock.

What I meant was...........no, hang on..........oh yeah, silly me ;D ;D

That's told me then ;D ;D ;D ;D

tubeprune said:

The 67TS is 2642mm wide and the BTUK site gives a width of 2602mm for the 2009TS.

I thought the 09ts was wider than the 67ts?

[Deleted]

Could there be a typo, meaning instaed that the 09TS will be 2702mm?

[Deleted]

I don't know the actual width figures for either. However, it should be remembered that the 09TS has a different body profile than the 67TS. Thus the 09TS retains it's full width much higher up the body side than the 67TS, thus creating extra internal space. Extra internal space is also provided by the use of FICAS construction technology, making for thinner car body sides.

[Deleted]

jim said:

It used to be 70 for the Chiltern.

It did indeed, but i was talking in more recent years

[tubeprune]

axewielder said:

Could there be a typo, meaning instaed that the 09TS will be 2702mm?

I took both sets of measurements off the drawings.

[tubeprune]

As for speeds, the current limit on the Victoria Line is 47.5 mi/h as limited by the ATO. The new system is designed at 80km/h so very little change there excpt there will be places where 80 km/h will be almost reached.

The A Stock will get up to 80 mi/h as I did it once on an empty run, downhill many many years ago when they were new and the track was a lot better than it is today. Now it is restricted to 50mi/h. If you want the technical reason - PM me.

[Deleted]

So, any chance of the District line track getting upgraded for speeds faster than 45mph?

[Deleted]

50mph seems good for the Victoria Line indeed. As for the S-stock, can't be *that* hard to do, since the same thing seems to be done *relatively* easily manually on the D-stock and its "flags". Surely, the technology must exist?

As for the District, I doubt we need anything over 45 mph really - just that the D stocks take forever to get up there! ;D Are the D-stocks de-tuned or something with the "flags" because their acceleration over 30mph is rather apalling yet here, we see claims of 70mph!

[Colin]

I suspect, though am by no means an expert, that the tube size wheels used on D stock may have something to do with it

Trouble is, it's one thing to have stock designed to do higher speeds, but quite another to have suitable track to run them on. There are sections of the District where 40 is quite fast enough for me ;D ;D

[Deleted]

Temple - Blackfriars must have track good enough for 60. ;D

Tube-size wheels may be a factor but I'm thinking, aren't the C-stocks with "standard" size wheels slower than the D stocks?

[Chris M]

My guess is that this would be something to do with gearing or motor configuration. The C stocks generally don't ever travel far between stations (they were designed for the circle line) whereas the D stocks were built for the suburban extremities of the DR as well as the city centre.

[DrJimi]

While recently building the virtual C Stock for the DL route, I compared C to D in detail so as to get the right performance. The C uses larger wheels but the pinion ratio is such that taking both gears and wheels into acount, it ought to accelerate slightly faster (all else being equal - which it isn't). The C train is slightly (8%?) heavier and the C also has 3 motored units vs. 4 for the D. The C is also limited to 40mph max so as to not exceed the max motor rpm, whereas the D can get to 45+. Taking all that into account, the C will accelerate very slightly slower than a D (about 0.9 m/s^2 initial acel from rest, compared to 1.0m/s^2 for the D). Or as Solidbond put it to me most succinctly "Frankly there's not much difference".

[Ben]

Then its probably bad news that the new stock will have tube sized wheels

[Deleted]

Colin is right though, the issue is not the train, it's the track. D stocks can go faster then 45mph (a LOT faster if all I've heard is to be believed!) but we have a 45 limit because of the track.

[ongarparknride]

Dr Jimi @ your post #23, I respectfully concur with your thoughts, logic, evaluation and resulting conclusion.

That's somewhat frightening really.........




cheers,

[District Dave]

benedict said:

Then its probably bad news that the new stock will have tube sized wheels

Why is that bad news - you've lost me!

Wheel size is calculated in conjunction with the pinion ratios (as detailed by Dr Jimi above) and this is what dictates acceleration and speeds; wheel size is not the issue.

[Deleted]

adw said:

Colin is right though, the issue is not the train, it's the track. D stocks can go faster then 45mph (a LOT faster if all I've heard is to be believed!) but we have a 45 limit because of the track.

But the issue as I've mentioned before is, since the Ds accelerate so appallingly at anything over 30mph, by the time you hit 40, you'll be hitting full service for the next stop! ;D There's only 2 or 3 sectors on the District I think which has a chance of hitting full line speed.

If the S stock has the ability to match the 1992TS in acceleration, we would actually see a real 45mph service!

[Chris M]

And bigger wheels make acceleration easier - hence the huge ones on mainline steam locos.