2009ts Sightings, Questions & Musings

Oh, when were they scrapped?
Was it always the plan to scrap them? I thought that they were going to be heavily modified according to the specifications and then redelivered...

Why were they scrapped what was wrong with them?

The original plans were to refurbish them. The fleet ended up being so different though, that the first two trains would have needed completely gutting back to the carbodies (which themselves had some issues, and would have needed some re-work), and re-fitting. Time and cost wise, Bombardier took the decision to build two new ones instead, re-using/modifying the original major equipment where possible/worthwhile - so it would not have been done if it weren't the least painful option.

Re. andypurks post, the stress guage car was a separate carbody that was never used by production.

Anyway, back to the original topic, they will be the last 2 to be delivered.

Are their any photographs of train 1 and 2 showing the differences between the production trains?

You wouldn't see most of them. There are differences in the interior panelling that a keen eye would spot, apart from a redesigned cab interior (drivers desk is significantly different because they were changed to have the new drivers display panel rather than the old two bar central line style panel), there were also some alterations made for 95th percentile male (so he can fit under the desk easier), and to the orientation of the traction brake controller.

The most major difference is the train circuitry. On the outside, most of the major equipment and cosmetic bits look the same, but there are probably getting on for a thousand design differences between the pre-series and series trains, ranging from a complete cab redesign, to trimming 5mm off a panel here and there to make them fit better.

Oh, and the sensitive edge also changed from wireless to wired, which was a fairly major change.

Just uploaded some pictures of train one a couple of days after it arrived at North Park depot: www.flickr.com/photos/seaeagle47002/

The only 2009 stock never to have been in passenger service.

Put some pics of a Train 3 onwards cab up and play spot the difference

Apologies for going slightly off-topic, but as a regular Viccy line commuter I can't help but notice a fair number of failed 09s, including one this morning, along with a number of irate drivers if a passenger is standing a little too close to a door when they wish to move off.

Then last night in the Evening Standard (20/06/11, p.36) CitySpy reckons: "The potential loss of jobs in the Midlands is to be mourned, for sure. But not too many London commuters will be grieving over the Government's award of the contract to build 1200 new Thameslink trains to Germany's Siemens. Bombardier (its Derby factory was the only other bidder for the deal) is loathed for the seemingly endless delays in its new rolling stock for the Victoria line. The company's trains have repeatedly broken down with door problems and issues with their onboard computers, earning the once-reliable London Underground route the title of the New Misery line. It's hard to see how that cannot have been a factor in its defeat on this massive contract."

Whilst I realise this is sensationalist journalism as us Brits love a good moan, are the 09s suffering more teething troubles than would be expected of a stock change of this magnitude? Is the door issue just down to sensitive edges, or something else? And do you think any issues have actually affected a decision regarding Thameslink trains?

Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, am just curious!

Was the faulty train you witnessed yesterday morning due to a door issue?
If anything, I would have thought the title of "New Misery Line" belongs to the Jubilee more than the Vic...
I don't think there are that many problems with the trains any more - the number of faults is certainly much less than when compared to say a year or so ago.
It annoys me that so many people don't realise that teething issues are normal. It also annoys me a lot when people blame the trains for delays when they themselves were responsible for activating the sensitive edges/blocking the doors from closing etc...

The doors are as reliable as any other doors on the underground, and do exactly as they are required to do!! It is the fact that they have sensitive edge strips that they have delays in service, they are not door system reliability issues in the main, just passengers with items of clothing, or newspapers, or bottle tops etc. etc. stuck in the doors!!

The numbers of delays have gone down because passengers are learning, and also the drivers are learning to cope with sensitive edges much more efficiently.

I think the above is just tabloid sensationalism. I'd challenge them to find another underground stock that was as reliable after around a year of service.

Kind of explains why when the trains entered service there were 20-30 minute delays for sensitive edge most days, which are now down to the odd 3-5 min delay.

Sorry to divert the topic again, but in regard to the pre production 2009TS cars, I was lucky enough to travel onboard car 12003 and made a short clip of the interior, which can be viewed below, the only difference I have noticed in the passenger saloons is the announcement.



I also found a news extract from ITV London Tonight, which I do remember watching, which shows train one, complete with the testing equipment fitted to it.



Hope it is of help to you all out there

Thanks for that. I thought the number plate was slightly different, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the help.