When the Jubilee is suspended...

[happybunny]

... on these engineering weekends. Does the Met call at Neasden and Willesden Grn ??

If not, why not ?

[Ben]

The platforms aren't necessarily maintained in a usable state. Stupid, IMHO, but thats what you get for fragmenting the railway, and having excessive layers of red tape.

[Dstock7080]

enough layers of red tape to make the platform heights acceptable?!!

[ruislip]

Jun 30, 2009 1:12:59 GMT Ben said:

The platforms aren't necessarily maintained in a usable state. Stupid, IMHO, but thats what you get for fragmenting the railway, and having excessive layers of red tape.

Any talk about re-opening these platforms for regular use, or do the disadvantages outweigh the benefits?

[Deleted]

Jun 30, 2009 1:12:59 GMT Ben said:

The platforms aren't necessarily maintained in a usable state. Stupid, IMHO, but thats what you get for fragmenting the railway, and having excessive layers of red tape.

Yes they were - they were refurbished for the Jubilee Line closure over Christmas 2006/07 (IIRC) for the conversion to seven-car trains. Met trains called regularly at Willesden Green and Neasden for the first two-thirds of the closure.

The important question now is whether or not they have stayed in a usable state...

[citysig]

The current order is that, except in emergencies, Met trains will not call at Neasden or Willesden Green, due to various issues with the platforms there.

Re-opening them for regular use means you slow down the railway between Finchley Road and Wembley, and of course it would have to be decided whether every train will stop or just the local / all-stations trains. Ultimately, the numerous re-timings in order to account for the stops could end up reducing frequencies on certain services.

[Deleted]

When was the last time the Met stopped at Neasden/ WG? (apart from staff pick up's/ emergency detrainment)

I remember that the Uxbridge service stopped during the Jubilee Line radio comms SNAFU a year or so back.

Apart from physical platform issues, a reduced service operated with Northwood/ Uxbridge services every 10 mins each.

Same argument HB why Jubilee Line can't stop at Charing Cross instead of Green Park (IMHO).

[21146]

Jul 1, 2009 12:45:30 GMT @centralsimon said:

When was the last time the Met stopped at Neasden/ WG? (apart from staff pick up's/ emergency detrainment)

I remember that the Uxbridge service stopped during the Jubilee Line radio comms SNAFU a year or so back.

Apart from physical platform issues, a reduced service operated with Northwood/ Uxbridge services every 10 mins each.

Same argument HB why Jubilee Line can't stop at Charing Cross instead of Green Park (IMHO).

At Charing Cross the escalators from the Jubilee Line platforms are time-expired and need replacing.

[Tomcakes]

Jun 30, 2009 1:12:59 GMT Ben said:

The platforms aren't necessarily maintained in a usable state. Stupid, IMHO, but thats what you get for fragmenting the railway, and having excessive layers of red tape.

I have to wonder how much it takes to maintain a platform. Surely the only things that can go wrong will be the likes of stones falling off the edge, which would need fixed either way as it'd impinge on the passage of trains?

I suppose there are things like OPO monitors, but presumably an extra member of staff could be stationed on the platform if it were pressed into service?

[Chris M]

Don't forget that you also have to maintain the platform surface free of weeds, etc.
Then there is the maintenance of the stairs or other access to the platform - at one station (might be Neasden) in the case of emergency detrainment, pax are directed away from the stairs at the souther end of the northbound Met platform, through a subway to the Jubilee platforms, and then all the way along the platforms to the stairs at the southern end.

[abe]

Jul 1, 2009 12:49:20 GMT @21146 said:

At Charing Cross the escalators from the Jubilee Line platforms are time-expired and need replacing.

The escalators have had a lot of mechanical parts removed for use on other machines around the system. They are effectively fixed stairs now - although of the type that makes everyone stumble on their first step.

[Deleted]

Jul 2, 2009 9:05:14 GMT Chris M said:

Then there is the maintenance of the stairs or other access to the platform - at one station (might be Neasden) in the case of emergency detrainment, pax are directed away from the stairs at the souther end of the northbound Met platform, through a subway to the Jubilee platforms, and then all the way along the platforms to the stairs at the southern end.

Why is this?

[Chris M]

I presume it has been decreed that the stairs from the NB Met platform to the footbridge are not safe, but I don't actually know.

[happybunny]

When I was over there, the platforms looked in a good state with lighting working and even OPO screens operational ! I can see no reason why they can not be used

[citysig]

The platforms are in a fit state. The OPO equipment is switched on. But all the necessary dotted "i's" and crossed "t's" have not been done.

All the necessary paperwork shall we say, is not completed regularly enough on the platforms to allow services to call there. There are issues with staffing, and other issues such as them not even being Metropolitan line stations.

There is no intention to use the platforms for normal, everyday operation, therefore the necessary measures to bring them in line with current operational standards have not been carried out.

Emergency detrainment can be carried out, but other than that, why spend huge amounts of time and money on assets that are relatively un-used.

[Tomcakes]

Exactly how much paperwork is required to permit trains to stop at a platform which is in a fit state ?

As for staffing, at the times when trains are stopping, extra staff could be brought in (if it were done at times when the Jubilee were suspended, surely they could be staff who would normally work at those Jubilee stations which are closed?).

[happybunny]

The station would still have a SS there even though it is closed. A booking office clerk is also in the ticket office (when scheduled to be open- so 2nd thoughts probably not till Monday AM ) to sell tickets that need to be sold before boarding the replacement bus. So I don't think staffing is an issue.

[citysig]

This whole thread appears to have passed from the reality - i.e. Met trains do not stop at Neasden and Willesden - to one of those wild idea threads.

Neasden and Willesden are managed by the Jubilee Line. As such they require Jubilee Line staff to man them. Alongside this, it requires Tubelines and the Jubilee Line management to sign off all the paperwork. On top of this requirement, there also has to be agreement reached between the Jubilee, Tubelines and the Metropolitan line management on how frequently trains will stop. For example, will everything be signed off for emergency evacuation only (which has been done) or will it all be signed off for all-day / everyday use (which it hasn't).

Once all the paperwork has been done, and once you get everything to a point where you have specified how many staff you need to oversee operation of both stations (bearing in mind there will be 2 separate lines stopping there) you then have to work out how to pay for, and supply the staff.

The Jubilee Line already has it's own line which runs parallel to the Met as far as these stations are concerned. In the current economic climate, would there really be any firm justification to pay out wads of cash to allow the Met line to stop at the 2 stations.

On top of this, as I touched on earlier, what advantage would the Met receive in stopping trains at these stations? Overall slower journey times, and maybe even a decrease in northbound frequencies, which would not go down well with many users of the Met Line.

So whilst I can see the OP's point that it would be handy to be able to utilise these stations during service suspensions, unfortunately it's one of those cases where the cost and paperwork simply does not justify opening on the odd weekend now and again.

Other than this, is there any real benefit to anybody in having duplicate services, both running pretty slowly between Finchley Road and Wembley Park, with no real interchange opportunity (other than between each other).

[Deleted]

It also means if a PEA is pulled southbound from Wembley Park, the next station is still Finchley Road.

[Chris M]

When S stock arrives and the driver and PEA-operator are able to communicate, and the nature of the emergency means that a quick stop is called for, will this come under the emergency use arrangements for use of these platforms?

[citysig]

Jul 5, 2009 4:25:37 GMT @hogspanker said:

It also means if a PEA is pulled southbound from Wembley Park, the next station is still Finchley Road.

Actually no. Drivers are given the option of pulling up alongside Neasden or Willesden, and leaving all doors closed until a member of station staff can attend to assist. Many will choose to continue to the next "proper" station as naturally help can be given faster in the long-run. Note my point about the stations being used in "an emergency."

[citysig]

Jul 5, 2009 8:40:39 GMT Chris M said:

When S stock arrives and the driver and PEA-operator are able to communicate, and the nature of the emergency means that a quick stop is called for, will this come under the emergency use arrangements for use of these platforms?

I read that after I replied to the post above you, so hopefully that answers your query ;D

[Chris M]

Indeed it does, thank you!

[Deleted]

Just to add, can you imagine the chaos and accidents when a Met is spotted approaching at either station? You only have to look at Wembley during the off-peak to spot the maniacs running across the bridge to platform 6.

[version3point1]

Jul 7, 2009 17:40:22 GMT @funk said:

Just to add, can you imagine the chaos and accidents when a Met is spotted approaching at either station? You only have to look at Wembley during the off-peak to spot the maniacs running across the bridge to platform 6.

They'll run over to Platform 6 regardless of whether or not there is a train in the platform! ;D

I remember one time the Met did stop at Willesden Green during the closures – I can't say that many people alighted there during the evenings, if at all.

[Ben]

Its interesting that a temporary notice can't be issued to allow their use during weekend closures.