Pink Oyster-Reader Question

[Deleted]

Sorry if this has been raised elsewhere (I couldn't find it if it has been), but this new pink oyster-reader thing ...

Do you have to touch your card on EVERY pink reader you come across? I only as becasue I had the following strange thing happen:

Journey from Island Gardens DLR to Highbury & Islington LO. I touch in at Island Gardens, touch the pink reader at Stratford LO platform and touch out at Highbury. I pop to the kiosk outside Highbury to buy something, then return to Highbury station and
touch in at the main gate. I then take the LO to Kensington Olympia where I touch out. When I later check the journey at a tube station, it says:

Island Gardens - Highbury

Highbury - Uncompleted

- Kensington Olympia

So, what was going on? The systems clearly did not understand that I had just made a straight journey from Highbury to Kensington Olympia. Should I have also touched the pink reader on the LO platform at Highbury when making my journey to Olympia - even though this was a "through journey", with no changing involved?

Grateful for any views/advice!

[Deleted]

londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2009/08/oyster-and-fares-news.html

Hopefully, the system will automatically realise what you have done and apply a refund without you needing to contact the Oyster Helpdesk.

It's beginning to get horribly complicated now... What next? Green readers at say London Bridge for you to interchange from National Rail to the tube?

[Deleted]

Sept 8, 2009 17:43:10 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2009/08/oyster-and-fares-news.html

Hopefully, the system will automatically realise what you have done and apply a refund without you needing to contact the Oyster Helpdesk.

It's beginning to get horribly complicated now... What next? Green readers at say London Bridge for you to interchange from National Rail to the tube?

Thanks - luckily I already have a zone 2 - 3 travelcard loaded on the oyster, so I didn't get surcharged anyway. Had I been on pre-pay only and an RPI had gotten on, I dread to think what they'd have done. Doubtless it would have been my fault somehow and I'd be the one suddenly having to take time out to appeal and prove my innocence ...

I agree this is getting increasingly complicated. If it goes on like this, how are people suppossed to know what they're supposed to do anymore?

[Deleted]

Perhaps an email to [e-mail] might help the system minions understand where the faults lie. Give 'em yer card number and details of the journey. Say that although you have a travelcard valid until xx for zones 2-3, you are concerned that someone whom only has PAYG, might be overcharged if they undertook the same journey.

What amuses me, is that pink readers claim to have been installed at Rayners Lane. Now, are they on the platforms and why at Rayners? Why not Harrow On the Hill or West Acton, or Croxley?

[andypurk]

Sept 8, 2009 17:43:10 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2009/08/oyster-and-fares-news.html

Hopefully, the system will automatically realise what you have done and apply a refund without you needing to contact the Oyster Helpdesk.

It's beginning to get horribly complicated now... What next? Green readers at say London Bridge for you to interchange from National Rail to the tube?

Not really, as the only reason for the pink validators is to tell the system that you've gone via a route which is not the 'default' between your start and end points and so to adjust the fare accordingly.

There will be no difference in fares between using LU and National Rail and anyway, at London Bridge, you have to go through two gatelines to get from Tube to National Rail, so there is no need for validators. London Bridge has validators on the NR platforms for passengers changing to or from Thameslink services from / to other Southern or South Eastern who don't take PAYG yet.

[andypurk]

Sept 8, 2009 17:56:37 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

Perhaps an email to [e-mail] might help the system minions understand where the faults lie. Give 'em yer card number and details of the journey. Say that although you have a travelcard valid until xx for zones 2-3, you are concerned that someone whom only has PAYG, might be overcharged if they undertook the same journey.

What amuses me, is that pink readers claim to have been installed at Rayners Lane. Now, are they on the platforms and why at Rayners? Why not Harrow On the Hill or West Acton, or Croxley?

Because, for example, you can change at Rayners Lane if going from Wembley via Harrow and Acton Town to Heathrow avoiding Zone 1. Putting the pink validators at Rayners Lane puts it in the obvious spot for changing from Met to Piccadilly. Validating at Harrow would mean you might have to get off an Uxbridge train to validate and wait for the next service. The validators will only be going in at interchange stations where there are alternative routes.

The validators are either on the platforms or on the bridge / subway between the platforms. There's no need for them at Croxley or West Acton as there is no real alternative route to be considered.

[Deleted]

Sept 8, 2009 17:56:37 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

What amuses me, is that pink readers claim to have been installed at Rayners Lane. Now, are they on the platforms and why at Rayners? Why not Harrow On the Hill or West Acton, or Croxley?

Indeed - they should either be at all interchanges or none of them, imo. What we've got instead seems like a muddled half measure that could maybe cause more anomalies than it solves.

Edited to add: I take note of andypurk's comments, but I'm afraid I remain to be fully convinced. Why, for example, are they not at White City/Wood Lane where (last time I did the journey) you get charged a Zone 1 fare if you travel from Shephards Bush (Central Line) to Hammersmith - changing at the White City/Wood Lane interchange?

[Deleted]

To interchange at White City and Wood Lane you'll need to go through the barriers twice which will have the same effect as a pink reader.

[Tomcakes]

Sept 8, 2009 17:50:41 GMT @tubeflight said:

If it goes on like this, how are people suppossed to know what they're supposed to do anymore?

Which is probably exactly what TfL want - the less passengers know the system, the more they can get away with.

[gantshill]

Hi,
I've two points to make:
Going through West Brompton today, I noticed two pink readers at the gate between the District and Overground platforms. I wondered how one would touch out if doing a journey such as Fulham Broadway-West Brompton on PAYG, then West Brompton-East Croydon on paper ticket.

Second point: I'm not sure that two yellow readers and a walk yet register with the system as proving a route taken. It was a year ago, but when I went on PAYG Perivale-Shepherds Bush, walk to overground then Shepherds Bush to Clapham Junction (zones 4 to 2), it charged me as if I travelled through zone 1. I checked on the tfl website, and it even now says that Perivale - Clapham Junction is charged as via zone one, and suggests touching the pink readers at either Olympia or West Brompton to make it clear that it is a non-zone 1 journey. I'm not sure that travelling via zone one for that journey would ever be sensible if the Central Line and Overground trains are running well.

Hope this makes sense. I'm sure one of you will spot if I've made a mistake.

[Chris M]

As I understand it, the system's ability to cope with via points - either a pink reader or two yellow readers and a walk - to show which route was taken was all being "stitched on" (for want of a better term) at the same time - i.e. before 6th September 2009 all journeys had only a start and an end (for the purposes of fares at least), no matter how many gatelines you actually passed through. Since then, from comments I've seen elsewhere, out of station interchanges now do define the route taken.
This means that what happened before this weekend is not relevant any longer.

Although the Oyster system now works as it should do, the same apparently cannot be said of the Single Fare Finder, which doesn't always get it right (I've not tested it myself though).

[Chris M]

Sept 9, 2009 19:13:43 GMT gantshill said:

Going through West Brompton today, I noticed two pink readers at the gate between the District and Overground platforms. I wondered how one would touch out if doing a journey such as Fulham Broadway-West Brompton on PAYG, then West Brompton-East Croydon on paper ticket.

If there are also yellow readers, then you would just tap one of those to start/end your Oyster journey as you would have done before this weekend and the new pink readers. If there aren't any then I think you'd have to pass through the barrier twice.

[gantshill]

I knew that some of you would have the answers. Thank you.
As far as West Brompton is concerned, I think the yellow readers on the platform had been replaced by the pink ones I could see. If both yellow and pink readers were next to each other, I shudder to think of the confusion that would occur.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2009 19:00:31 GMT @a60k said:

To interchange at White City and Wood Lane you'll need to go through the barriers twice which will have the same effect as a pink reader.

Not last time I did this, it didn't. On exiting at Hammersmith, the thing deducted £1.50 as, I was told, the system couldn't deal with the concept of the new interchange and believed any journey from Shepherds Bush (cental line) to Hammersmith must have gone via zone 1.

[Deleted]

This all seems really ridiculously complicated to me. So much so that I've just stopped using my Oyster card and starting using the good old paper tickets again.

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2009 14:07:20 GMT @tom747 said:

This all seems really ridiculously complicated to me. So much so that I've just stopped using my Oyster card and starting using the good old paper tickets again.

Couldn't agree anymore!

Notice too that the Waterloo Mainline Gatelines have a different logo for their own smartcard. Undoubted, when South West Trains starts accepting Oyster PAYG, this different logo will undoubted cause even more confusion.

While Oyster is a good concept, it has been added to piecemeal, resulting in what appears to be a very disjointed and muddled system. The problems over getting Daily Price Capping were huge; simply because the system could not compute such a multitude of fares for differing lengths and zones.

While respecting andypurks views, some people I have spoken to have come a cropper at London Bridge, in having PAYG only, they come off the Thameslink from Farringdon as a pure example, and get off at London bridge. They then ignore the readers on the platforms and head straight for the tube, but get caught out by the barriers at the exit to the bus station. Staff tell them to return to the platform, validate it on a reader, then come back to exit. This is just silly! And what with Wimbledon and the maze of instructions to cope with, which are all different depending on just where you came from. Each has a different result, depending again on your origin.

[amershamsi]

Sept 8, 2009 17:56:37 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

What amuses me, is that pink readers claim to have been installed at Rayners Lane. Now, are they on the platforms and why at Rayners? Why not Harrow On the Hill or West Acton, or Croxley?

West Acton and Croxley don't give interchanges.

Journeys changing at Harrow currently aren't charged via zone 1, unless you also change at Rayners. Northern end of the Met to Hammersmith or Acton is automatically charged via zone 1, even though a Harrow-Rayners switch back is nearly as good.

These pink readers are to try and fix the problem of complicated fares/routing, multiple routes and so on. It's a step forward in terms of Oyster finally charging people the right fare. It's a step back in terms of ease of use (then again, touching a pink pad is easier than ringing the Oyster hotline).

[andypurk]

Sept 12, 2009 15:03:21 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

Sept 12, 2009 14:07:20 GMT @tom747 said:

This all seems really ridiculously complicated to me. So much so that I've just stopped using my Oyster card and starting using the good old paper tickets again.

Couldn't agree anymore!

Notice too that the Waterloo Mainline Gatelines have a different logo for their own smartcard. Undoubted, when South West Trains starts accepting Oyster PAYG, this different logo will undoubted cause even more confusion.

While Oyster is a good concept, it has been added to piecemeal, resulting in what appears to be a very disjointed and muddled system. The problems over getting Daily Price Capping were huge; simply because the system could not compute such a multitude of fares for differing lengths and zones.

While respecting andypurks views, some people I have spoken to have come a cropper at London Bridge, in having PAYG only, they come off the Thameslink from Farringdon as a pure example, and get off at London bridge. They then ignore the readers on the platforms and head straight for the tube, but get caught out by the barriers at the exit to the bus station. Staff tell them to return to the platform, validate it on a reader, then come back to exit. This is just silly! And what with Wimbledon and the maze of instructions to cope with, which are all different depending on just where you came from. Each has a different result, depending again on your origin.

I agree that the London Bridge situation is completely ridiculous and has been since PAYG became valid on the Thameslink route. I think the problem is that it was originally only planned to be a short term measure until PAYG was valid on all rail services in London, at which point the barriers would be added to the system. Unfortunately the expansion of PAYG has taken far too long and so silly gaps have remained in the system. Wimbledon's tram problem would have been a lot less complicated if they could have had the tram platform outside the railway gateline, as the trams are treated like buses for Oyster; again the problem will be reduced once PAYG spreads to the NR services, as it'll be the same for everyone changing.

I think what is forgotten when people say how terribly complicated it all is, is that most people will never come across the problem areas. Of course, at the moment, if I didn't have a travelcard season, then I'd still use a paper travelcard but due to the lack of NR validity, rather than complexity.

[Chris M]

Sept 12, 2009 13:15:40 GMT @tubeflight said:

Sept 9, 2009 19:00:31 GMT @a60k said:

To interchange at White City and Wood Lane you'll need to go through the barriers twice which will have the same effect as a pink reader.

Not last time I did this, it didn't. On exiting at Hammersmith, the thing deducted £1.50 as, I was told, the system couldn't deal with the concept of the new interchange and believed any journey from Shepherds Bush (cental line) to Hammersmith must have gone via zone 1.

The key question is was this journey before or after the 6th of September 2009? If before, then the system has been upgraded since and it should no longer be an issue.
If after the 6th of September, then there is a fault with the system and you should write to TfL and point this out.

[Deleted]

While respecting andypurks views, some people I have spoken to have come a cropper at London Bridge, in having PAYG only, they come off the Thameslink from Farringdon as a pure example, and get off at London bridge. They then ignore the readers on the platforms and head straight for the tube, but get caught out by the barriers at the exit to the bus station. Staff tell them to return to the platform, validate it on a reader, then come back to exit. This is just silly! And what with Wimbledon and the maze of instructions to cope with, which are all different depending on just where you came from. Each has a different result, depending again on your origin.

Am I right in thinking that if I come from say, St Pancras to London Bridge on Thameslink, and want to finish my journey there, I have to touch out on the platform and then be let out manually by a member of staff at the gateline by the bus station?

[Deleted]

My understanding of it is that you have to 'validate' the card on the platform readers, then touch out on the gates. However, having not had the chance of speaking to anyone who has done this journey... I can't say for sure.

[Tomcakes]

Sept 12, 2009 14:07:20 GMT @tom747 said:

This all seems really ridiculously complicated to me. So much so that I've just stopped using my Oyster card and starting using the good old paper tickets again.

I would do if it didn't cost a small fortune more!

Plus having to queue at Kings Cross for the pathetically small number of machines and windows which have been provided - but that's another kettle of fish!

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2009 16:48:23 GMT @amershamsi said:

These pink readers are to try and fix the problem of complicated fares/routing, multiple routes and so on. It's a step forward in terms of Oyster finally charging people the right fare. It's a step back in terms of ease of use (then again, touching a pink pad is easier than ringing the Oyster hotline).

It would be far better if they simply installed them at all intercanges and made it clear to passengers that they should remember:

1 Touch yellow on starting journey
2 Touch pink whenever changing lines
3 Touch yellow when ending journey

Instead we have this muddled half-measure where people are expected to touch pink sometimes at a few interchanges but not others. Now - outside of the enthusiast community such as us - who on earth is likely to remember all this? Can you imagine trying to explain this to those uttelry unfamiliar with the system - such as tourists?

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2009 21:58:34 GMT Chris M said:

Sept 12, 2009 13:15:40 GMT @tubeflight said:

Not last time I did this, it didn't. On exiting at Hammersmith, the thing deducted £1.50 as, I was told, the system couldn't deal with the concept of the new interchange and believed any journey from Shepherds Bush (cental line) to Hammersmith must have gone via zone 1.

The key question is was this journey before or after the 6th of September 2009? If before, then the system has been upgraded since and it should no longer be an issue.
If after the 6th of September, then there is a fault with the system and you should write to TfL and point this out.

Afraid I can't remember.

Edited to add: Oh, sorry, misunderstood your question. Yes, it was way before 6 September. I started a thread on it at the time.

[Chris M]

Sept 13, 2009 11:29:58 GMT @tubeflight said:

It would be far better if they simply installed them at all intercanges and made it clear to passengers that they should remember:

1 Touch yellow on starting journey
2 Touch pink whenever changing lines
3 Touch yellow when ending journey

Instead we have this muddled half-measure where people are expected to touch pink sometimes at a few interchanges but not others. Now - outside of the enthusiast community such as us - who on earth is likely to remember all this? Can you imagine trying to explain this to those uttelry unfamiliar with the system - such as tourists?

It is actually nearly as simple as that to explain -
1. Touch yellow on started journey
2. Touch pink if you see one when changing lines
3. Touch yellow when ending journey.

[Tomcakes]

If you see one - and are they clearly placed, are there sufficient quantities? Waterloo W&C has caught me out before.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2009 12:51:23 GMT Chris M said:

Sept 13, 2009 11:29:58 GMT @tubeflight said:

It would be far better if they simply installed them at all intercanges and made it clear to passengers that they should remember:

1 Touch yellow on starting journey
2 Touch pink whenever changing lines
3 Touch yellow when ending journey

Instead we have this muddled half-measure where people are expected to touch pink sometimes at a few interchanges but not others. Now - outside of the enthusiast community such as us - who on earth is likely to remember all this? Can you imagine trying to explain this to those uttelry unfamiliar with the system - such as tourists?

It is actually nearly as simple as that to explain -
1. Touch yellow on started journey
2. Touch pink if you see one when changing lines
3. Touch yellow when ending journey.

Yes, but people don't know to look for them as the pink readers are not a certainty when changing lines.

People have enough on their minds, usually,without having to wonder if there's a pink oyster reader to look for at their interchange point. They should either always be there (in which case people generally accept that as a given feature of their journey) or not at all, imo.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2009 11:29:58 GMT @tubeflight said:

Sept 12, 2009 16:48:23 GMT @amershamsi said:

These pink readers are to try and fix the problem of complicated fares/routing, multiple routes and so on. It's a step forward in terms of Oyster finally charging people the right fare. It's a step back in terms of ease of use (then again, touching a pink pad is easier than ringing the Oyster hotline).

It would be far better if they simply installed them at all intercanges and made it clear to passengers that they should remember:

1 Touch yellow on starting journey
2 Touch pink whenever changing lines
3 Touch yellow when ending journey

Instead we have this muddled half-measure where people are expected to touch pink sometimes at a few interchanges but not others. Now - outside of the enthusiast community such as us - who on earth is likely to remember all this? Can you imagine trying to explain this to those uttelry unfamiliar with the system - such as tourists?

So all this touch pink at xx interchange station has been brought in so that Oyster PAYG users can show that the journey they are making is not via Zone 1. Now the zones have been 'abolished' on the new map... ? Just how is the unfamiliar person who uses oyster PAYG supposed to undertstand it all? I guess those in charge are effectively relying on users 'gullability'.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2009 14:00:34 GMT @tubeoperator92 said:

So all this touch pink at xx interchange station has been brought in so that Oyster PAYG users can show that the journey they are making is not via Zone 1. Now the zones have been 'abolished' on the new map... ? Just how is the unfamiliar person who uses oyster PAYG supposed to undertstand it all?

Good question. It's getting absurdly muddled.

[Deleted]

So, next time I am doing an interchange between National Express and the central line at Stratford, or vice versa, am I looking for a pink validator or a normal yellow one?