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Post by plasmid on Jun 17, 2010 9:02:04 GMT
Why?  After 1 billion spent severe delays due to earlier signalling problems. Lame. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 17, 2010 10:23:40 GMT
Have you ever tried going fault-finding on a signalling circuit?
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Post by plasmid on Jun 17, 2010 10:38:49 GMT
I'm not an engineer. I am a passenger....
Relay that question to the press and they couldn't care less...
1 Billion spent and a signal failure after not even a month of full service.
I hardly ever criticise the tube, I love it.
But surely this is ridiculous.
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Post by mcmaddog on Jun 17, 2010 10:40:23 GMT
Yikes this was/is really bad. I got turfed out at New Cross Gate after listening to a chorus of "we are sorry, this train is being delayed by Congestion" on the train. Amazingly at NXG they were still using the automated announcements. I managed to jump over to platform 4 and catch a fast line London Bridge service which left nearly empty. There were no announcements advising those on P5 to cross over. My other half arrived at Forest Hill at 9.30am and reached London Bridge at 11am!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 17, 2010 11:35:31 GMT
I'm not an engineer. I am a passenger.... Relay that question to the press and they couldn't care less... Depends which branch of the press. Although I see what you're saying, the actions of a railway company should not be beholden to the press - the passengers yes! I hardly ever criticise the tube, I love it. I know - which got me thinking about communication. In the not-too-distant past all the operating companies that were involved in working trains into London south of the river - either the Big Four or the various Regions and the LPTB/LT had mutually agreed plans published in their Sectional Appendices to keep the traffic moving if there was some form of hold-up in any part of the networks. I wonder (and perhaps this is best answered by an Overground/SouthEastern/Southern employee) if such arrangements exist to-day? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 17, 2010 15:00:07 GMT
Why? After 1 billion spent severe delays due to earlier signalling problems. Lame. I, like everyone else here probably, am not privy to the in's & out's of the failure. But is it conceivable that a humble light bulb has blown? The new signals may well be all LED's; I don't know  Is it conceivable that a humble fuse has blown? There are many other things that make up the signalling system and with all due respect, any one item can fail at any given time despite the original cost of it. I've bought things new from shops had to take them back within a month or two because of a defect - I can't be the only one it's happened to and the railways aren't immune from the phenomenon either! |
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Post by plasmid on Jun 17, 2010 15:10:54 GMT
With severe delays for 6-8 hours I doubt it was as something as simple as that.
I don't really care about the signal failure itself, they always get sorted.
Yea well I've taken my VW back many times for fixes to be done under warranty. That's not the point.
When you spend a billion pounds on something you half expect it to work as intended 100% of the time...
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cso
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Post by cso on Jun 17, 2010 15:32:32 GMT
When you spend a billion pounds on something you half expect it to work as intended 100% of the time... Then you are expecting miracles; even the simplest thing can go wrong on a £1000 system or a £1bn system... Yea well I've taken my VW back many times for fixes to be done under warranty. That's not the point. Errr, how is that different? You've bought something new, and you've had to take it back to get if fixed under warranty... which is potentially the same with the signals? |
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Post by plasmid on Jun 17, 2010 15:44:59 GMT
Oh crikey it doesn't matter does it? The point is this isn't how the media will see it...they will see three things...that is the billion pound mark, less than one month's full operation and a signal failure causing delays for over 6 hours.
Comprende?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 16:09:15 GMT
Ich verstehe, but everyone must understand that with something new, despite testing, testing, testing, there will always be unforseen little things just waiting for the right circumstances to crop up and bang, the whole shabang falls to its knees.
These circumstances can be anything from one train or many more in exactly the wrong place [or right, depends on which way you look at it], temperature, anything really can throw it all out of kilter.
Yes, the mdeia will rip it to shreds; look at what they did with the automotive indistry and the sticky pedals. This is the problem, people from outside the industry making up things and painting a nice rosy image to harness the gullible folk who read such nonsense.
These things will happen. simple, there nothing that can be done to alleviate the issues that can and will continue to crop up...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 17, 2010 16:35:29 GMT
Oh crikey it doesn't matter does it? Well you asked the question in your OP Anyway, perhaps we should move on or it'll just end in spilt milk.... The point is this isn't how the media will see it...they will see three things...that is the billion pound mark, less than one month's full operation and a signal failure causing delays for over 6 hours. Your OP didn't mention the media; so this thread is about what the media will make of it? Quite frankly the vast majority of the media will always go for the most negative angle it can when it comes to the railways. We could operate a 50% more than advertised service, charge no fares and never experience a service affecting issue and they'd still find something wrong |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2010 21:30:20 GMT
Have you ever tried going fault-finding on a signalling circuit? I'm not an engineer. I am a passenger.... Relay that question to the press and they couldn't care less... I remember a number of Operating Officials watching someone go through the fault finding procedure on a straightforward track circuit failure in the Signal School and they were amazed at how long the procedure took. It's a lot harder at times than people think. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 18, 2010 9:12:37 GMT
I remember a number of Operating Officials watching someone go through the fault finding procedure on a straightforward track circuit failure in the Signal School and they were amazed at how long the procedure took. It's a lot harder at times than people think. Which makes me wonder whether something like a youtube video of this being released to the public would make them more likely to appreciate what takes the time? Similarly, you or someone else on this forum a long time ago stated that many non-railway people think that changing a bulb in a signal head is as simple as changing a lightbulb at home (imho not unreasonable when they have no more accurate frame of reference). Would a video of one actually being fixed help alleviate this misunderstanding? |
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Post by plasmid on Jun 18, 2010 9:51:23 GMT
I second that.
There are already videos of track replacement work taking place on the Central Line on YouTube during the night time possessions which I can now appreciate the effort.
A video of what's done with regards to fixing signalling on the different types of signals would be a good idea along with why they may fail in the first place. And how they work etc. etc.
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Post by twa on Jun 18, 2010 11:56:44 GMT
Last week i got off at New Cross rather than NXG and i am sure that i saw a notice that said that performance was in the realm of only 95 %.
Surely a number so low could not have been a RAMS target for a new system.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 18, 2010 13:44:45 GMT
Except it isn't entirely a new system. Almost everything south of New Cross Gate uses existing infrastructure and it has to interface with other Network Rail services.While Dalston Junction - New Cross services are self-contained on the new infrastructure, they too will suffer knock-on effects.
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Post by jpd888 on Jun 21, 2010 16:34:21 GMT
Does anyone know what actually went wrong last Thurdsay? My train was stuck on the NXG overpass for 40 minutes without any proper information - what happened?
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Post by superteacher on Jun 21, 2010 17:44:25 GMT
Except it isn't entirely a new system. Almost everything south of New Cross Gate uses existing infrastructure and it has to interface with other Network Rail services.While Dalston Junction - New Cross services are self-contained on the new infrastructure, they too will suffer knock-on effects. Although the timetable doesn't "self contain" the services - don't the trains alternate between the 3 braches i.e a train does Dalston - New Cross - Dalston - West Croydon - Dalston - Crystal Palace. However, as you say, services could be self contained if the situation warranted it. |
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Post by patstonuk on Jun 21, 2010 19:55:07 GMT
Except it isn't entirely a new system. Almost everything south of New Cross Gate uses existing infrastructure and it has to interface with other Network Rail services.While Dalston Junction - New Cross services are self-contained on the new infrastructure, they too will suffer knock-on effects. Although the timetable doesn't "self contain" the services - don't the trains alternate between the 3 braches i.e a train does Dalston - New Cross - Dalston - West Croydon - Dalston - Crystal Palace. However, as you say, services could be self contained if the situation warranted it. The Dalston Jn - New Cross element of the service is self-contained. Four Diagrams for the 4tph on this route. The Diagrams are NX4, 6, 11 and 14. The Diagrams covering West Croydon and Crystal Palace require interworking between the two destinations - ie Dalston Jn - West Croydon - Dalston Jn - Crystal Palace - Dalston Jn - West Croydon and so on. This method of working evens out the different journey times to the two destinations and enables the 4tph service to each to be operated by 13 Diagrams. |
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Post by bicbasher on Jun 21, 2010 20:41:47 GMT
You also have to consider that past NXG those trains have to fit in amongst 4tph Southern services as far as Sydenham and then between Norwood Junction and West Croydon.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 28, 2010 9:28:22 GMT
The part south of New Cross Gate was never part of LUL (or nor was platform 1 at NXG, the flyover is new build), so it didn't need converting to NR standards. The section between NX/NXG and Whitechapel has been converted from LUL standards to NR ones, the line north of Whitechapel is new build.
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Post by harlesden on Jun 29, 2010 7:47:46 GMT
I'm just annoyed that in order to legally enjoy the full line (round trip) as part of a day out, I have to purchase a £7.50 Z1-6 OPTC rather than a £5.10 Z2-6 OPTC simply on account of one station on the new network being slightly too close to the City.
As somebody living on £65 per week (JSA) I cannot run the risk of a Penalty Fare.
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