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Post by harlesden on Jul 20, 2010 19:38:07 GMT
Tube challenge - travelling the entire system in the shortest possible time during a single traffic day. At least that's what I've been told it involves. Surely now the former ELL is no longer a part of LUL, it is no longer so much of a challenge, making today's best time a little meaningless in comparison to ELL/Aldwych/Ongar days. Has any forum member ever done it?
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Post by 21146 on Jul 20, 2010 19:50:06 GMT
The ELL has gone, plus the need to timetable-in the awkward peak hour Aldwych, Ongar and Shoreditch branches (or Watford Junction - did anyone ever manage that pre-'82?), but the W&C, JLE and T5 is added.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 20, 2010 21:04:24 GMT
Starting at Ongar and finishing at Upminster was de rigeur when I was a monitor for the first challenge (that set a record), supervised by LURS that had subsumed London Roving, becomiong a LURS sub-committee. A weekday had to be picked because of the Aldwych and Shoreditch branches, and a day when there was an exhibition on at Olympia. The booked dates when there was an exhibition were studied well in advance! Present-day website: www.tubeforum.co.uk/
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2010 21:23:59 GMT
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 21, 2010 12:05:50 GMT
It's definitely something I'd be interested in doing
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 21, 2010 12:52:15 GMT
Ooooh! I wouldn't! If anyone has such an idea, do read on the website how much effort goes in and how much running! Also, with today's service delays, etc., it must be near-impossible to break the record.
In the past, before travelcards, candidates had to buy an all-line ticket from the Commercial Office which I assume covered up to Watford Junction, as well as Amersham/Chesham. I had never heard of it before. I assume that in the 1960s a Rover ticket was bought..wasn't there a Twin Rover and Golden Rover that covered buses and Underground?
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 21, 2010 13:41:05 GMT
There was an episode of 'The Tube' about two people who tried to do it - they didn't look the fittest tbh, I seem to remember a run from Aldgate East to Aldgate to catch a Circle nearly killed them. I've run the marathon in the last few months so I'd hope to be ok with that I think it's probably all in the planning.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Jul 21, 2010 13:56:36 GMT
In the past, before travelcards, candidates had to buy an all-line ticket from the Commercial Office which I assume covered up to Watford Junction, as well as Amersham/Chesham. I had never heard of it before. I assume that in the 1960s a Rover ticket was bought..wasn't there a Twin Rover and Golden Rover that covered buses and Underground? That's right! In about 1977 a child Red Bus Rover was 35p and worth every penny (I think a single bus fare was 4 or 5p then) The Golden Rover was for tube s well but was a lot more expensive.(Can't remember how much). However,on Sunday,a child could buy a single to anywhere for 10p.I remember having to convince the ticket collector at Cockfosters or Ongar or wherever that my 10p ticket from Clapham South was,indeed,the right fare...
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neilw
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Post by neilw on Jul 21, 2010 14:26:14 GMT
twin rover covered buses and trains, but not for stations beyond Rickmansworth for some strange reason
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 21, 2010 15:11:39 GMT
There's a fair amount of video about Geoff Marshall's various attempts, including the episode of 'The Tube' here[/u][/url]
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 21, 2010 15:18:43 GMT
I can just remember that I used to buy my Red Rovers (Child) at Hounslow Bus Garage, in the conductors' cashing area. I seem to recall that Twin Rovers/Gold Rovers could be bought at tube stations. Green Rovers that I used on country buses out of Staines West old station were bought on the RLH from the conductor.
I am certain that I knew of the restriction on travel north of Rickmansworth, so what did tube record attempters do to get to Amersham and Chesham? Buy a special ticket from 55 Broadway?
By the way, there were up to three records at one stage: A, B and C. One was using Underground only I think plus buses, one was using taxis at extreme ends, and the other for using private cars. One young chap had his mum drive him from terminus to terminus to achieve an all-time record. Also, some attempters used to step on to the platform at each station, thus annoying the guards!
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Post by harlesden on Jul 21, 2010 16:31:56 GMT
I seem to remember Red Bus Rovers and 7-day Go As You Please Tickets back in 1973 when I arrived back in the south from Grimsby. I was never aware of a restriction north of Rickmansworth simply because I'd never heard of Rickmansworth back in those days. Spent a lot of time on the 120 for a reason which seems bizarre now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2010 16:41:18 GMT
Hmm... dare I admit that I have done (or at least attempted) it? It *is* quite hard work, and I'm not the fittest person ever, but it was down to delays on the Central and Jubilee lines that scuppered my attempt - 238 stations in about 17h 40m, the record being around 16h 15m or so (IIRC) (although I wasn't attempting for a record, meerly a completion). It still has to be on a weekday though - there was a time a while back where a record was set on a Saturday (a record in itself to find a Saturday with no engineering works!) but Guinness wouldn't allow it as Saturdays aren't normal service apparently... Very hard work, but worth it possibly... well, I did my run in February for charity - raised around £400 for Tearfund
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2010 16:49:20 GMT
When Twin Rovers were first introduced (from 5 July 1958), initially they could only be used on a Saturday or Sunday (but not north of Rickmansworth) and on central red buses 1-298. They were then priced at 8/6d and 4/3d (child). They were originally called “Road Rail Rover” tickets and were printed as such. This name remained on existing ticket stock until they were exhausted and then replaced.
I had (and still have - somewhere!) ticket 000 issued from Alperton for 4/3d. Happy days indeed !!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2010 11:00:09 GMT
I'm quite active on the Tube Challenge forum (linked from above website), and although I've not done it myself (yet), I have 'assisted' others with their attempts, including the record setting run by Sam Cawley in December last year. The wikipedia article is rather comprehensive. If anyone is interested, some forum members are getting together tonight for a Zone 1 mini-challenge.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jul 22, 2010 14:13:44 GMT
I sort of worked out a plan a while ago to do this, but with current WTT and my route probably not being the quickest, I was well over the 24 hour mark according the the TfL route planner guide. The main stumbling block was Upminster I found.
Without giving too much away, my plan started at Amersham and ended up at Epping, but it needs some serious work doing on it!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 22, 2010 16:22:40 GMT
I did look at the possibilities of the "Alphabet" challenge (visit one station beginning with each letter of the alphabet, in the correct order (omitting those letters which are not represented, namely J, X, Y and Z). Ickenham is the key.
Have tried a few practice runs of the so-called "all lines" challenge - travel (at least) one stop on each of the eleven lines. And no, you can't claim to have done three lines just by going from Liverpool Street to Moorgate: you have to travel on each of a Met, Circle and H&C train. Now that the ELL is not required the record is apparently well under 40 minutes. I've done it in well under an hour, (Farringdon to Leicester Square)
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Post by SE13 on Jul 22, 2010 16:57:17 GMT
I did look at the possibilities of the "Alphabet" challenge (visit one station beginning with each letter of the alphabet, in the correct order (omitting those letters which are not represented, namely J, X, Y and Z). Ickenham is the key. Have tried a few practice runs of the so-called "all lines" challenge - travel (at least) one stop on each of the eleven lines. And no, you can't claim to have done three lines just by going from Liverpool Street to Moorgate: you have to travel on each of a Met, Circle and H&C train. Now that the ELL is not required the record is apparently well under 40 minutes. I've done it in well under an hour, (Farringdon to Leicester Square) Ooh! Quite fancy that challenge next time I'm there. Needs close trains on SSL areas to make a record I'd have thought, I'll have a think about that one though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2010 17:26:50 GMT
My plan involves doing Chesham to Morden. I have several problems:
1) When to visit West Harrow, break my journey on the run from Watford to Northwick Park, or break my journey from Uxbridge to Heathrow?
2) When to do the High Barnet and Mill Hill East services?
3) Where to factor in the Waterloo & City line?
4) And most of all, how to keep travel between lines to an absolute minimum?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2010 17:47:44 GMT
I've done the full challenge a couple of times and probably going out again in a few weeks time. I do the 'orthodox' route from Amersham to Heathrow T5. It's always enjoyable and usually leads to some interesting conversations with people en route.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 22, 2010 20:49:04 GMT
2) When to do the High Barnet and Mill Hill East services?? I understand Bus HB to Cockfosters, is a popular way of tying togther those loose ends (there are several other such pairs: e.g. Stanmore/Edhware, Wimbledon/Morden 3) Where to factor in the Waterloo & City line??? The challenge is to visit every station, not to cover every line: since you will almost inevitably be visiting Bank and Waterloo anyway, (how else can you do Lambeth North and St Pauls?), there is surely no need to use the W&C at all.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 22, 2010 20:54:25 GMT
Ooh! Quite fancy that["all lines"] challenge next time I'm there. Needs close trains on SSL areas to make a record I'd have thought, I'll have a think about that one though. Without giving too much away, on most of the SSL you can see what the next three trains are going to be, and remember that the clock does not start until you board your first train! My usual undoing (trying at lunchtime) is the low frequency on the W&C (and the long corridors at Bank to get to it!
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 22, 2010 21:20:50 GMT
For those interested, the attempt in 1979 I think it was, was decided by LURS Roving Committee would set a new record if all stations were accomplished. This was because there had been so many changes since the last record set years before. Several of us volunteer LURS members were set around the network to monitor, and I waited at Turnham Green for the three attampters to go to Richmonf and back, then go to Heathrow. Nowadays, a bus would be taken from Richmond to Hatton Cross. Anyhow, the team were regulated as it were all over the system and we were kept up to date by phone. They were said to be at Bank and legging it to Monument to ctach the last Upminster or so they hoped. A certain well-known (in LURS) gentlemam rang the District Controller and asked if he could hold the train for them, which he did. Arrival was made at around 01.15 at Upminster, having started at Ongar of course, and a photo was taken that was published of the three exhausted team members handing over their tickets to a bemused BR ticket collector!
I am sure that I have read online that West Harrow and the need to run to or from it can expose weaknesses in teams..not everyone can keep pace! On one occasion, two males decided not to wait for a bus and ran, and their female companion decided to chance it...the bus arrived of course, caught them up and then picked the companions up! Also, holding doors open for companions, and for timing reasons seems to have caused much discussion in the past. Time of course runs from when the doors close, and seconds can mean the record broken or not. This may have been more relevant when starting from Chesham though. Nowadays it seems that Amersham starts are preferred.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 14:54:46 GMT
Hey all, couldn't resist commenting when I saw my name mentioned! The removal of the ELL certainly made it easier. Until then the 'perfect' time (considered) was somewhere around 18 hours and 10 minutes. The removal of the ELL not only meant you saved fifty minutes (17h 20m) not having to do it, but that you could start on a later train of the day and save 20 minutes (17h 0m) there. Most people tend to do an Amersham/Chesham start, and if you start on the first train of the day, it takes you about 1h 40m to get down to West Harrow. If you start on a later train (the 06.22 from Chesham is currently the optimum one!) because of less waiting for connections, it takes you 1h 20m to get down to West Harrow - 20 minutes saved. Then .. there's a LOT more running involved nowadays. The chap here that said he was a marathon runner? You would do well! Because you could then (say) run the whole section from Cockfosters to High Barnet (2.6 miles) in about 15 minutes and not have to wait for any buses. Buses help you, but if one doesn't come then you have to run .. fitness is most definetely a big part of it these days, it's not just sitting on trains all day! Ongar would have been a pain, but it IS still very much a challenge these days! The pain-in-the-rear bits to schedule in (obviously) are Ken Olympia, Mill HIll East, and the Hainault loop. The current record holder recently set out to beat his own time, and missed his MHE connection by a minute or two. This was 13 hours into the day and he gave up there and then ... and I would do the same, because it's that tight nowadays that you'll never get back those 20 minutes if you miss a connection. Tough, huh? West Harrow can be done on a run from North Harrow. You can double back at Harrow on the Hill on the way to/from Uxbridge. I even know someone that run on foot it from South Harrow! (told you you had to be fit!) The best way of doing it, is actually NOT to have a fixed/set route. i.e. you get Camden Town and a Mill HIll East train is NOT there - do the Edgware Branch first. But if it IS there (or you know from the WTT's that your High Barnet train will connect), then do that branch first. Many people get stuck in the trap of having a fixed route and sticking to it ... Fail! Have a route that gives you options, and be prepared to change it on the day, on the fly. An yes .. that means knowing the system well enough like the back of your hand to be able to do that! When to factor in the Waterloo & City Line? Er.. Never! because you don't have to do it. You only have to pass through each station ONCE (on any line). Not travel down every 'line' as marked on the tube map. So Waterloo and Bank are covered by other bits of your days travel. There's also an old website still up that I wrote at: www.tuberelief.co.uk/ back when we did a charity run post-tube-bombs in 2005. It's got quite a lot of tips and a 'how to' guide. Or .. if you want to read about my latest attempt that I did just last month, then that's here .. www.geofftech.co.uk/tube/tube10.htmland that's me!! Hello all! *waves* Geoff.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jul 23, 2010 17:50:31 GMT
Hello and welcome Geoff.
I stated earlier in the thread that I'd love to have a crack, and although you say a pre-planned route wouldn't work, you must have a fair idea, surely? I'm still running through times from A to B and Y to Z, and I still can't get myself under 24 hours, however I was planning on doing the entire lot on trains, which is possibly my downfall.
I've got a great big tube map in the mind, I certainly know my way round the system, but there are a couple of sketchy areas for sprinting if required, I don't know East London in the slightest, and I'm not over-clever in SW London either.
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 23, 2010 23:20:32 GMT
Could a few of us manage to get a District Dave's forum into the record books? I'd bet Dave would be chuffed - let others run round for a full day and he get's his name into the books
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jul 24, 2010 15:25:33 GMT
Could a few of us manage to get a District Dave's forum into the record books? I'd bet Dave would be chuffed - let others run round for a full day and he get's his name into the books Dave's away on holiday and is out of touch for a few days more yet so won't be able to answer for himself. But the answer to your suggestion is "perhaps - but perhaps not" so far. The admins have seen your idea and need to kick around the plusses and minuses of the forum being involved by name before we agree (or not). We have seen implications that you may not have, and want to satisfy ourselves before giving any official blessing. But that's not to say you can't gather support here as an individual who's doing it with a few mates .
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Post by citysig on Jul 24, 2010 20:47:52 GMT
I wonder of the legality in some of said forum (LU staff) members lending a delicate hand here and there. The odd controller, the odd signaller, the odd train operator (sometimes all 3 can be very odd). Cheating? Never ;D ;D
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jul 24, 2010 20:51:58 GMT
I wonder of the legality in some of said forum (LU staff) members lending a delicate hand here and there. The odd controller, the odd signaller, the odd train operator (sometimes all 3 can be very odd). Cheating? Never ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2010 13:38:42 GMT
hely there!
yes - i think you'd be hard pushed to do the whole thing on JUST trains. going out to High Barnet and back and then up to Cockfosters will waste you a whole bunch of time when a 307 bus could be used instead!
with the 'fixed route' - i always have a route in mind that i stick to about 90%, but almost everytime i've been out, we've deviate from it, done something slightly different depending on what train comes first. the key to a fast time is obviously minimising the amount of time waiting for trains -- so i would never work out a route and rigidly stick to it, i have routes that have flexibility and options built in. it's all about the options!
i think it would be great to have a 'District Dave' attempt. whether line controllers help you or not! [very naughty!]
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