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Post by jamesb on Jul 23, 2007 21:31:10 GMT
I was at Woodford yesterday and noticed an emergency train stop plunger had a red light lit up underneath it, but trains seemed to be coming and leaving the station normally.
The Supervisor went up to the plunger with the red light but couldn't reset it. Then he checked all the other plungers up the platform and found one at the far end had been activated; when he reset it the red light went off.
It made me wonder how they work. The one which had been pressed was on the siding platform side.
If there was somebody on the track, but no train in the platform, would it stop a train from entering the area (but only on one track)? So if a train had tried to go into the siding platform at Woodford, would it have been stopped?
If that is the case, does it mean the train could be approaching Woodford normally and enter the next section and suddenly be sent an emergency stop signal? Or is it sophisticated enough to tell the train to slow down at a normal rate and not enter the next section? Is the driver allowed to move if s/he can't see any obstruction, or must they wait for the plunger to be reset before they can proceed?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 21:36:03 GMT
The way they work is that they remove the code from the train, hence the rather pricey warning!!! Maybe that particular ESB was faulty...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 21:50:17 GMT
why are they provided on only the central and not the Victoria or indeed any other line. Surely the drivers should be watching for any obstruction as on other lines. Is this due for a roll out on the SSR and Victoria on their upgrades?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 21:52:05 GMT
The Victoria also has emergency stop plungers. At present Central and Vic are the only lines to have them as they are the only lines which have ATP/ATO and hence track codes to be removed by a plunger. As other lines are re-signalled they will spread.......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 21:52:38 GMT
The Vic was ATO from the start, at a guess I think the platform ESB's will be supplied when the line undergoes it's upgrade, starting... now!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 21:56:52 GMT
The Vic was ATO from the start, at a guess I think the platform ESB's will be supplied when the line undergoes it's upgrade, starting... now!!! Noooo the Vic has PEPs (Platform Emergency Plungers) which operate in the same way as the Central line ones, by destroying the track code and therefore applying the train's emergency brakes. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2007 22:01:42 GMT
Oh yes, the yellow 'fire alarm' type buttons! Now I know what they are for!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 23, 2007 22:24:41 GMT
The Victoria line will retain the PEP's but they will be PESP's (Platform Emergency Stop Plungers) for the new DTGR (Distance To Go Radio) signalling system. They will work in much the same way and remove the LMA (Limit of Movement Authority) from the approaching train.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2007 3:29:19 GMT
The Victoria line will retain the PEP's but they will be PESP's (Platform Emergency Stop Plungers) for the new DTGR (Distance To Go Radio) signalling system. They will work in much the same way and remove the LMA (Limit of Movement Authority) from the approaching train. Oooh look, more acronyms ;D ;D There is a thread floating around where BAET talks about the PEPs on the Victoria line, but I can't find it... |
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Post by jamesb on Jul 24, 2007 7:01:20 GMT
So at open air stations where there is one platform but two tracks, like Woodford with the siding platform, you'd have to make sure you pressed the right ESB, because if you pressed the one for the opposite platform nothing would happen?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2007 9:36:18 GMT
the other lines were going to have a simular system installed called ESL's Emergengy Stop Lights these had plungers on platforms and when hit they would light up a light on the track to the driver there is only a handful of these left as they were put in and never commissioned the only place i can think of off top of head is bow road on the e/b is whern you leave the station there is some lights in the 6 foot with a yellow diamond around them
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Post by compsci on Jul 24, 2007 10:03:29 GMT
I noticed emergency stop plungers on the Jubilee platforms at Green Park a couple of days ago. Are these related to the ATO system which is being installed?
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 24, 2007 10:09:26 GMT
The Jubilee will be getting plungers [5 on each platform] in readiness for ATO.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2007 21:25:31 GMT
the other lines were going to have a simular system installed called ESL's Emergengy Stop Lights these had plungers on platforms and when hit they would light up a light on the track to the driver there is only a handful of these left as they were put in and never commissioned the only place i can think of off top of head is bow road on the e/b is whern you leave the station there is some lights in the 6 foot with a yellow diamond around them The diamonds are yellow?! I thought they were grey, they're so filthy! I think there's one leaving Earls Court going towards West Ken too. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 24, 2007 21:41:48 GMT
So at open air stations where there is one platform but two tracks, like Woodford with the siding platform, you'd have to make sure you pressed the right ESB, because if you pressed the one for the opposite platform nothing would happen? We did some work on this but it was over a year ago now and my memory has been faded by all the brake dust over the years! I believe we decided to take the LMA away from both roads but don't qoute me. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Jul 24, 2007 21:43:23 GMT
the other lines were going to have a simular system installed called ESL's Emergengy Stop Lights these had plungers on platforms and when hit they would light up a light on the track to the driver there is only a handful of these left as they were put in and never commissioned the only place i can think of off top of head is bow road on the e/b is whern you leave the station there is some lights in the 6 foot with a yellow diamond around them You can still see the concrete posts which held the stop lights in the ten foot in some areas along the H&C between Paddington and Hammersmith. Or at least you could when I left the line some 2+ years ago. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 24, 2007 22:25:40 GMT
The Jubilee will be getting plungers [5 on each platform] in readiness for ATO. They were provided as part of the enabling works for the JLE. |
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Post by Tom on Jul 24, 2007 22:29:01 GMT
I was at Woodford yesterday and noticed an emergency train stop plunger had a red light lit up underneath it, but trains seemed to be coming and leaving the station normally. The Supervisor went up to the plunger with the red light but couldn't reset it. Then he checked all the other plungers up the platform and found one at the far end had been activated; when he reset it the red light went off. It made me wonder how they work. The one which had been pressed was on the siding platform side. If there was somebody on the track, but no train in the platform, would it stop a train from entering the area (but only on one track)? So if a train had tried to go into the siding platform at Woodford, would it have been stopped? If that is the case, does it mean the train could be approaching Woodford normally and enter the next section and suddenly be sent an emergency stop signal? Or is it sophisticated enough to tell the train to slow down at a normal rate and not enter the next section? Is the driver allowed to move if s/he can't see any obstruction, or must they wait for the plunger to be reset before they can proceed? The plungers are in a series circuit which picks up a relay. When you plunge, the relay drops out. Simple! (The number of these and the vic line type circuits that I've modified...) Their operation will take the code off the track circuits immediately adjacent to and in the platform, and this will cause the other track circuits on the approach to go to a progressively lower code the nearer to the platform you get. |
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Post by abe on Jul 25, 2007 7:07:00 GMT
the other lines were going to have a simular system installed called ESL's Emergengy Stop Lights these had plungers on platforms and when hit they would light up a light on the track to the driver IIRC these were part of the original plans for OPO, and, as you rightly say, were never commissioned. I can't remember at the moment the reason though... |
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Post by jamesb on Jul 25, 2007 14:09:41 GMT
For reference... Although now over 10 year's old, the following link I found on google appears to summarize the various different theoretical options available to improve safety at the platform/train interface. Some of the things they talked about seem to have happened or were happening anyway. www.riskworld.com/abstract/1996/sraeurop/ab6ad054.htm |
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