What goes through Wimbledon Park

[Deleted]

Joined the forum mainly to find out what I can run through my Wimbledon Park - Southfields model railway. And then today saw a ballast train top and tailed by class 66's squeaking through. Does anyone have any photographs of todays activity (or do these monsters regularly trundle through)?

I have a very bad phone foto of the second Medite 66 ready to post, please tell me how its done.

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[Deleted]

Its BR track so I guess anything that fits. I heard there is a class 37 railtour using that line in April

[andypurk]

Feb 5, 2011 23:27:26 GMT @bronzeonion said:

Its BR track so I guess anything that fits. I heard there is a class 37 railtour using that line in April

It hasn't been BR (or Railtrack / Network Rail) track since rail privatisation. The track itself now belongs to LU, but the mainline trains retain running rights and the signaling is still controlled by Network Rail at Wimbledon.

[Deleted]

When I left EWS in 2000 class 66s were still banned from the route so we had the devils own job finding locos to run on ballast trains. I remember EWS proudly proclaiming a five-year contract to maintain the line as front page news on the staff magazine in the same month that the bulk of the locos (class 73s) that were allowed were withdrawn! In the first weekend work of the new cantract at least four and maybe six class 73s were dragged off the scrap lines to run the trains!

At this time the 'allowed' locomotives were class 33s (by then all stored), class 73s (dropping like flies) and lightweight class 37s without roof horns or centre snow ploughs (also dropping like flies). I would imagine that the allowing of class 66s had something to do with the contract passing to GBRF a few years ago. The GM plague had infiltrated everywhere else so why not! As it appears that GBRF still have the contract then it is also possible that their class 73s could also be used.

[Deleted]

Why are the signals still of the BR type TPWS stuff then if its LU track?

[andypurk]

Feb 6, 2011 1:13:17 GMT @bronzeonion said:

Why are the signals still of the BR type TPWS stuff then if its LU track?

Because it is still signaled from Wimbledon by Network Rail (or didn't you read all my post?). Why should LU wish to resignal the line when mainline trains, without tripcocks, still run over it?

[SE13]

Feb 5, 2011 23:23:15 GMT @neil2 said:

I have a very bad phone foto of the second Medite 66 ready to post, please tell me how its done.

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Have a look at this tutorial which will explain everything.

[Deleted]

The LU Traffic Circular does have the restriction on stock for this line. I don't have a TC to hand sadly though.

[Deleted]

Ive always thought that if the signals are not LU the track would not be LU, sorry

[Oracle]

I was on the Vulcan Venturer railtour around 1980 which was hauled in the Down direction by a Class 50. I published shots from the early 1960s in UndergrounD of SR p/way trains at East Putney and they used U1, Q1 and 700-Class locos. How things have changed!

There was and probably still is a restriction on locos available to be used on p/way work on the City Widened Lines with Class 33/73 and 31 only permitted. The photo published in RAIL showed that a couple of 73s were found! I think that they are just about the only locos allowed on the GN City Line to Moorgate from Finsbury Park on Track Recording Duties. This seems to me to make the surviving 73s invaluable!


The member below has had a good go at posting but in order to make the image visible, here it is [forgive me for mentioning but the link has to be inside the two sets of square brackets:

[Deleted]

I should have read the tutorial.

Here is the very poor quality foto I took from a passing train. It proves though there was at least one class 66 on the line yesterday.
[/imhttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5295/5421225316_256562d11b_m.jpgg]

I'll go along there this am with proper camera and see if they've come back

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2011 9:51:50 GMT @bronzeonion said:

Ive always thought that if the signals are not LU the track would not be LU, sorry

The two-track section going to Amersham is using NR type signals, with trainstops. It's LU track.

[Deleted]

No its not, it has the same style signals as the rest of the Met

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2011 10:52:37 GMT @bronzeonion said:

No its not, it has the same style signals as the rest of the Met

You'll be wrong there- compare the 4 aspect LU signals to a 3 or 4 aspect NR style signal and you'll notice the difference.

Things up that end are signalled NR style because of the long braking distance of a 165/168 compared to LU stock.

www.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=51.649075,-0.498719&spn=0,0.038581&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.649245,-0.498677&panoid=IQZgnAlqisisJgHfXepDLA&cbp=12,105.13,,3,2.52

For example shows a >2 aspect signal. If it were the LU type, it would be 2 or 4 aspects, and you would always see at least two aspects shown unless the signal is at danger.

District Dave has a fantastic signalling section on his site talking about LU signals: www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/london_underground_signaling.html

National Rail signalling is somewhat different; a 'caution' aspect is a single yellow aspect versus a green and yellow aspect.

A clear aspect on NR is a single green, but on LU on a multiple aspect (>2 lenses, NR can be 4 aspect on two lenses using the latest signals) is two green.

That said, LU signals are always 2 aspect- a 4-lens head is two combined, and such has a normal number plate and an R number plate to go with it.

[Deleted]

Not Wimbledon Park, but District line signalling. So apologies in advance for that.

Earl's Court eastbound. The "feathers" are aligned to correspond with the pointwork they control, rather than identifying a "main line". Is this standard LU practice (and thus, like 4-aspect signals, a divergence from how Network Rail does things) or a one-off?

[Deleted]

A feather identifies a diverging route from the main line, and the feather represents the general direction of the branch. Though if there's more than one route branching off the same side or just past it, like depot-style but on a running line, the feathers will be on the same side, going from left to right in the order of each set.

[Deleted]

Ohh right I get it now, I just assumed all signals with the same look as the LU ones (1950's looking, and has the little offshoot bit coming from the lenses with the aspects shown on those too)

[Dstock7080]

Feb 5, 2011 23:23:15 GMT @neil2 said:

Joined the forum mainly to find out what I can run through my Wimbledon Park - Southfields model railway. And then today saw a ballast train top and tailed by class 66's squeaking through. Does anyone have any photographs of todays activity (or do these monsters regularly trundle through)?

The 66s are for the LU track work between Southfields and East Putney this weekend.

Regular movements on the Wimbledon line see: 450, 455, 458, occasional 158/9-170.

Indeed the track, stations and infrastructure are owned by LU - although the Line is still signalled and powered to NR standards.

[Deleted]

As promised I took some fotos of the autoballaster train between Wimbledon and Wimbledon Park this morning.





I wonder whether it reached the district Line from East Putney or Wimbledon?

[Deleted]

"No mainline rolling stock rated above Network Rail classification RA8" is allowed between Southfields and Wimbledon Park, according to the traffic circular.

[21146]

Feb 6, 2011 11:55:30 GMT @innocentabroad said:

Not Wimbledon Park, but District line signalling. So apologies in advance for that.

Earl's Court eastbound. The "feathers" are aligned to correspond with the pointwork they control, rather than identifying a "main line". Is this standard LU practice (and thus, like 4-aspect signals, a divergence from how Network Rail does things) or a one-off?

The signal on the E/B approaching Whitechapel showed plain green for straight ahead (which was to the ELL) and with a 3-aspect Junction Route Indicator pointing left for the District Line 'main' into the station.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2011 17:05:29 GMT @21146 said:

Feb 6, 2011 11:55:30 GMT @innocentabroad said:

Not Wimbledon Park, but District line signalling. So apologies in advance for that.

Earl's Court eastbound. The "feathers" are aligned to correspond with the pointwork they control, rather than identifying a "main line". Is this standard LU practice (and thus, like 4-aspect signals, a divergence from how Network Rail does things) or a one-off?

The signal on the E/B approaching Whitechapel showed plain green for straight ahead (which was to the ELL) and with a 3-aspect Junction Route Indicator pointing left for the District Line 'main' into the station.

There is I believe a smiliar case at Finchley Central northbound from platform 2, where the "main line" to High Barnet has the route indicator lit to the right while trains bound for Mill Hill has nothing.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2011 16:18:01 GMT @neil2 said:

As promised I took some fotos of the autoballaster train between Wimbledon and Wimbledon Park this morning.





I wonder whether it reached the district Line from East Putney or Wimbledon?

All NR engineering trains entered and will leave via wimbledon due to the clapham-barnes line being shut

[norbitonflyer]

Feb 6, 2011 17:05:29 GMT @21146 said:

Feb 6, 2011 11:55:30 GMT @innocentabroad said:

Not Wimbledon Park, but District line signalling. So apologies in advance for that.

Earl's Court eastbound. The "feathers" are aligned to correspond with the pointwork they control, rather than identifying a "main line". Is this standard LU practice (and thus, like 4-aspect signals, a divergence from how Network Rail does things) or a one-off?

The signal on the E/B approaching Whitechapel showed plain green for straight ahead (which was to the ELL) and with a 3-aspect Junction Route Indicator pointing left for the District Line 'main' into the station.

Historically the St Marys curve was the original route and the Whitechapel & Bow the new branch: similarly at Finchely Central the Edgware line was the main line and High Barnet was added later.............

I think in BR practice the "main" route (no feathers) is always the one with the least restrictive speed limit. I know of at least one location (Foxhall Junction near Didcot), where signalling was changed - the straight ahead from the down relief led into a siding and the "main" route led over a crossover onto the down main. The change took place after a derailment when a driver trook the crossover at full speed.
The author O S Nock experienced this accident at first hand, and remarked on the irony that the accident occurred too late to be mentioned in a book he had published on the subject of railway accidents - it made it into subsequent editions!

[Tom]

Feb 6, 2011 18:51:45 GMT norbitonflyer said:

Feb 6, 2011 17:05:29 GMT @21146 said:

The signal on the E/B approaching Whitechapel showed plain green for straight ahead (which was to the ELL) and with a 3-aspect Junction Route Indicator pointing left for the District Line 'main' into the station.

Historically the St Marys curve was the original route and the Whitechapel & Bow the new branch: similarly at Finchely Central the Edgware line was the main line and High Barnet was added later.............

I think in BR practice the "main" route (no feathers) is always the one with the least restrictive speed limit.

This is also the principle on LU.

[Deleted]

I'm on a learning curve in regards to posting photos. A further attempt to submit images of activity between Wimbledon and Wimbledon Park this weekend.

[Deleted]

I think that worked, though next time I'll put captions in as well.

From this thread I've learned that as well as District Line stock and BR stock movements between Wimbledon and Clapham yards I can run (on my model railway of Wimbledon park):
Some Class 37s
Class 73s
Class 33s
Class 66s (but possible only to Wimbledon Park)

Before the bridge went down I could also have a selection Southern Railway steam engines on milk trains and diversions

I could also run some rail tours:
Mallard?
Blue Pullman???
Merrymaker excursions (any details of what these were?)

Thanks for your help so far.

[Deleted]

Feb 7, 2011 10:53:37 GMT @neil2 said:

Class 66s (but possible only to Wimbledon Park)

Why's that? Sheds are RA7!

[Deleted]

Is this the first use of GBRf mainline kit on this section of track?
There were five trains all top and tailed.

I can't remember them being south of the river before.

Andy

[Oracle]

A Midland (LMR) Blue Pullman DMMU was once used on a railtour along the line.