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Post by edwardfox on May 6, 2011 22:54:20 GMT
Trains from Watford can be diverted onto the NLL either south of Willesden Junction or south of South Hampstead.
W/B NLL trains can be diverted onto the DC at the same points.
Are there any other diversionary possibilities over which trains in service could pass?
I guess there is no way an E/B NLL service from either Richmond or Clapham Junction could be diverted to Queens Park and/or Euston
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Post by trc666 on May 6, 2011 23:23:51 GMT
This is what can be done:
To / From South Hampstead:
South Hampstead, Camden Junction, Primrose Hill, Camden Road West Junction, Camden Road (change DC to AC) and vice versa.
To / From Willesden Junction Low Level:
Kensal Rise, Kensal Green Junction, Willesden Junction Low Level and vice versa.
To / From Clapham Junction or Richmond:
Mitre Bridge Junction (change DC to AC), Willesden Junction High Level, Kensal Green Junction (reverse and change AC to DC on curve), Willesden Junction Low Level and vice versa.
The latter option would have to be done out of passenger service between the high level and low level stations as it involves reversing via a siding / shunt signal.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 2:00:06 GMT
If you used a 172 you could do: Richmond > Gunnersbury > Acton Wells Jn > Willesden WLL Junction > Mitre Bridge Jn > North Pole > Latchmere Jns > Clapham Jn all without reversing, or using goods-only lines. Acton Wells > Mitre Bridge Jn is Non-Electrified though, unsuitable for 378s as a result  |
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Post by andypurk on May 15, 2011 7:38:12 GMT
If you used a 172 you could do: Richmond > Gunnersbury > Acton Wells Jn > Willesden WLL Junction > Mitre Bridge Jn > North Pole > Latchmere Jns > Clapham Jn all without reversing, or using goods-only lines. Acton Wells > Mitre Bridge Jn is Non-Electrified though, unsuitable for 378s as a result Well, only Acton Wells Junction - Willesden WLL Junction is unelectrified, but the point still stands.  |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 15, 2011 12:21:15 GMT
It's that short link, and the one from Acton Wells to Acton yard, which has been the sticking point in running the "parly" service between Wandsworth Road and Ealing Broadway. Only in the UK would you have two electrified lines crossing each other and the a spur between them let unelectrified! How much would it cost to wire them up?
Acton Wells to Willesden LL must be all of 400 yards - downhill. Get a decent run up and a 378 could probably coast it!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 15:48:39 GMT
It's that short link, and the one from Acton Wells to Acton yard, which has been the sticking point in running the "parly" service between Wandsworth Road and Ealing Broadway. Only in the UK would you have two electrified lines crossing each other and the a spur between them let unelectrified! How much would it cost to wire them up? Acton Wells to Willesden LL must be all of 400 yards - downhill. Get a decent run up and a 378 could probably coast it! Ok, but what damage could the 378 do to the pantograph or the overhead lines as it leaves one set, traverses the dead section, and then picks up the other set? |
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on May 15, 2011 16:32:24 GMT
It's that short link, and the one from Acton Wells to Acton yard, which has been the sticking point in running the "parly" service between Wandsworth Road and Ealing Broadway. Only in the UK would you have two electrified lines crossing each other and the a spur between them let unelectrified! How much would it cost to wire them up? Acton Wells to Willesden LL must be all of 400 yards - downhill. Get a decent run up and a 378 could probably coast it! Ok, but what damage could the 378 do to the pantograph or the overhead lines as it leaves one set, traverses the dead section, and then picks up the other set? Not to advocate,of course,but I have ridden on 313s as they have done the changeover at North Pole (both directions) without stopping.... |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 17:10:14 GMT
Here is an an historical interesting diversion pre 1966 when the Watford, Bushey , Croxley triangle was in place it was possible to run a train to from Watford High Street to Croxley Junction (reverse) and the forward to Colne Junction and Bushey & Oxhey.
Tube stock were not allowed to do this as it would be facing the wrong way.
As an as aside -
After the triangle closed all Class 501's faced the sane way with the power car facing London. Not sure of the reason for this as the 501's did work facing either way pre 1966.
Pictures of 6 car Oerlikons appear to indicate that they always operated in multiple with power cars at the outer ends (an operational nightmare at times, I would imagine.
Xerces Fobe
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Post by andypurk on May 15, 2011 17:59:18 GMT
Ok, but what damage could the 378 do to the pantograph or the overhead lines as it leaves one set, traverses the dead section, and then picks up the other set? Not to advocate,of course,but I have ridden on 313s as they have done the changeover at North Pole (both directions) without stopping.... There's nothing wrong in that either, the main restriction on changing on the move is whether the units are capable of it. Class 313s occasionally did this on DC line services at Camden South Junction running on AC to/from Euston). Class 319s are also capable , class 377s are supposed to be (although I never managed it at North Pole). I don't know if class 378s are capable of changing from AC to/from DC without stopping. In the past, the class 373 Eurostars regularly changed over whilst moving quite fast. Initially at Cheriton and later on the Fawkham Junction - Southfleet Junction spur. To do it in the Acton Wells area would require the pantograph lowering over the section with no wires otherwise things would get messy!! |
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Post by patstonuk on May 16, 2011 9:24:54 GMT
Not to advocate,of course,but I have ridden on 313s as they have done the changeover at North Pole (both directions) without stopping.... There's nothing wrong in that either, the main restriction on changing on the move is whether the units are capable of it. Class 313s occasionally did this on DC line services at Camden South Junction running on AC to/from Euston). Class 319s are also capable , class 377s are supposed to be (although I never managed it at North Pole). I don't know if class 378s are capable of changing from AC to/from DC without stopping. I experienced a changeover on the move at North Pole just once on a northbound 377, despite being a fairly frequent traveller on the route a few years ago. From participation in a discussion on this subject on another forum, I gather that a changeover whilst stationary is now the operational norm. Certainly, given that the changeover/reboot only takes a minute or so, there would be little time saved by a changeover on the move and a stationary change avoids the possibility of, say, running off the third rail and then being unable to draw power from the overhead - with no option to get back to the third rail and get out of trouble. My Quail indicates that both lines are signalled for reversible working at North Pole and there are crossovers in both directions electrified on both systems. This provides the 'get out of jail' option if the changeover fails. No doubt one of this Forum's LOROL staff will clarify....I just hope my speculation isn't hopelessly wide of the mark!  |
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