Step Free Access at Epping

[richardpen]

Sorry if this has been discussed in the past, i checked back to september 2010 but couldn't find anything.

there seems to be a 50% chance of getting step free access at epping with the current timetable. My qquestion is, how difficult would it be to let the public know at theydon bois whether or not you are on or about to board a train that will arrive on the step free acess platform? i appreciate that at times a train may not be able to go into the platform it is timetabled to go on but i would have thought it would be possible that by the time a train arrives a theydon, there is a good chance of someone being pretty sure which platform at epping this train will arrive on.

on one occasion, my friend who had a heavy suit case asked the driver who didn't know and on the last occasion me and a friend who both had heavy luggage asked a station assistant who couldn't tell us. when we arrived at epping on the far platform, a lady with a pushchair pressed the assistance button but was met by a message telling her to find help in the booking hall.

i guess its all down to who has the information available to them and how efficiently it can be relayed to drivers/passengers. what are your thoughts on this?

[Deleted]

Difficult one... repeater signal, or a camera relaying an image of the signal at entry to Epping would mean alterations to the signalling system to allow enough time for the route to be given and displayed at Theydon. And passengers would need to understand what it meant even with a 'prompt' info board! It could be done... But, I guess TfL would weigh up a cost/benefit analysis and deem it unnecessary.

[Deleted]

The only people who are going to know for sure is whoever is on the signal desk at Wood Lane. If we called them up to ask which platform we were going into we’d have to hold the train for a few minutes while we waited for them to pick up and then get a torrent of abuse for asking.

There is supposedly step free access at both platforms, I was told you call the station staff at the help point and they come to unlock the gate on platform 1. Maybe you were there on a day when there were no staff available, with the job cuts that's likely to be most days...

[superteacher]

May 15, 2011 9:26:03 GMT aslefshrugged said:

The only people who are going to know for sure is whoever is on the signal desk at Wood Lane. If we called them up to ask which platform we were going into we’d have to hold the train for a few minutes while we waited for them to pick up and then get a torrent of abuse for asking.

There is supposedly step free access at both platforms, I was told you call the station staff at the help point and they come to unlock the gate on platform 1. Maybe you were there on a day when there were no staff available, with the job cuts that's likely to be most days...

Although the gate leading from platform one isn't much use if you'd arranged to be collected from the main entrance!

[su31]

And does this special gate have an Oyster reader?!

[Deleted]

May 16, 2011 1:58:08 GMT su31 said:

And does this special gate have an Oyster reader?!

Not a clue, I'll have a look next time I'm on Platform 1

May 15, 2011 15:00:15 GMT superteacher said:

Although the gate leading from platform one isn't much use if you'd arranged to be collected from the main entrance!

If it’s impossible to go over the stairs then surely in these days of mobile phones it’s not that much of an effort to call whoever is collecting you and ask them to pick you up on the other side.

While the timetable does tell us which platform we are meant to arrive at it cannot be relied on. I do a lot of last trains and even at that late hour many a time I’ve been switched to Platform 1 at Epping when it’s booked to go off Platform 2.

Even if they told us at Theydon Bois there’s no guarantee that they wouldn’t change their mind before we got to Epping. The denizens of Wood Lane are a strange folk, their ways are not like ours…….

[Chris M]

I would have thought it far simpler and cheaper to put in a barrow crossing or High Barnet-style long but step-free walk between the platforms (via the area beyond the overrun distance) at Epping.
It's not as if LU use the tracks beyond the station for train movements, and if done sensibly it would cost peanuts to remove if they ever want to run to Ongar again.

[Deleted]

This is the official advice from London Underground:

You need to use the correct entrance/exit depending on which platform you are travelling from/to, as you cannot change between platforms within station – you need to make a 450m journey via street to change between platforms 1 and 2. Use Station Road entrance to get to/from platform 2 – this route goes via ticket hall.

When travelling to Epping, ask station staff at your starting station if your train can be routed to arrive at platform 2 – this is often, but not always, possible. If you arrive at platform 1, use Hillcrest Way exit – this is locked at all times, so please use Help Point to ask staff to unlock the gate

Now the presumption is that the station is always staffed, so the help point should always be answered.

[causton]

The obvious answer is install a swing bridge that swings over the track that is not being used, so the driver then opens the doors on the 'wrong' side and the passenger gets out that way!

Or just get another train to stop level and open both sides of doors on both trains ;D

...or more sensibly, just do what they did at High Barnet (as Chris M suggested). Pic for those who don't know here: www.flickr.com/photos/londonstuff/5062906308/

[Deleted]

What an elegant solution!

[Deleted]

It won't work, because Epping still maintains (abandoned and pointless) link to Ongar branch.
Swing bridge would be a much better solution: also suitable for such stations as Edgware Road and Aldgate - to link two islands together but still maintain flexibility of retraction when needed.

[Deleted]

Hang on, is it still maintained then?

[phillw48]

There are no conductor rails, I think a section of running rail has been removed as well. They have refused permission for the preservationists to run into Epping.

[Deleted]

What would be more expensive, installing a swing bridge, barrow crossing etc or ensure that the station was staffed at all times so that someone could walk over to Platform 1 and unlock the gate on the rare occasions it was necessary to do so? They could also possibly deal with passenger enquiries, scotch and clip the points when required and generally supervise the station.

We could call them “station supervisors”. Wonder if anyone’s thought of that…….

[Oracle]

There is a new (replacement) swing/barrow crossing at Brockenhurst as it is required for disabled passengers as well as the supplies for the coffee kiosk on P1/2 island. It works even though P1 is used frequently now. However, for P4 (Lymington branch) and P3 (usual Bournemouth direction), disabled passengers have to ask a member of staff to unlock a gate that affords access from the car park which is the other side of the Level Crossing. This is quite a few metres' trip down the access road, across the LC and then back up. Both require staff to be available.

[Chris M]

May 17, 2011 7:16:52 GMT aslefshrugged said:

What would be more expensive, installing a swing bridge, barrow crossing etc or ensure that the station was staffed at all times so that someone could walk over to Platform 1 and unlock the gate on the rare occasions it was necessary to do so? They could also possibly deal with passenger enquiries, scotch and clip the points when required and generally supervise the station.

We could call them “station supervisors”. Wonder if anyone’s thought of that…….

Personally I'd have both the High Barnet solution and a staff member. That way disabled people are not second class citizens and you get all the benefits associated with the staff member you list (and more you don't)

[phillw48]

If you had a movable bridge it would require connection to the signaling system anyway. So in that case it could be operated from the signaling centre with the aid of suitable communications and CCTV eliminating the need to have the station staffed the whole time.

[Chris M]

Actually, given how infrequently the line beyond Epping is used (all but never), the bridge would normally be set for passengers and any integration with the signalling system would almost certainly be more economically done with a ground frame.

[Deleted]

May 17, 2011 9:02:08 GMT Chris M said:

Personally I'd have both the High Barnet solution and a staff member. That way disabled people are not second class citizens and you get all the benefits associated with the staff member you list (and more you don't)

Congratulations. With that sort of commitment to the passenger service and welfare I think you can safely discard any hope of ever working in senior management at LUL.

May 17, 2011 9:13:29 GMT phillw48 said:

If you had a movable bridge it would require connection to the signaling system anyway. So in that case it could be operated from the signaling centre with the aid of suitable communications and CCTV eliminating the need to have the station staffed the whole time.

To repeat my earlier question how much would that cost compared to ensuring that the station was staffed at all times? Would you need extra staff at Wood Lane to oversee this, do they even have the room up there?

The simple economic question is how often does the gate on platform 1 need to be unlocked, does the frequency justify spending £xxx on extending the platform east of Epping in order to build a ground level connection between the two platforms?

Please remember that the DfT has cut billions off TfL’s budget and Boris has a £45m cable car to pay for along with propping up his bike scheme.

[Deleted]

If they don't intend sending Central Line trains to Ongar again and continue to refuse EOR access to Epping, why don't they just cut the tracks and do the High Barnet solution?

[Deleted]

May 18, 2011 20:10:01 GMT @whistlekiller said:

If they don't intend sending Central Line trains to Ongar again and continue to refuse EOR access to Epping, why don't they just cut the tracks and do the High Barnet solution?

Duhhhhh, maybe because they think they might one day re-open the line to Ongar if they ever had the money to do so and that the demand for doing a High Barnet is so small that it would be a needless expense.

I really do wonder what world some of you people live in, you seem to think that LUL/TfL has an unlimted pot of money, can we please try living in the real world circa 2011, the one where the present government is hacking public spending to pieces and the Tube has far better things to spend it's lomited resources on.

[Deleted]

Was about to add that it hasn't yet or won't happen because of a distinct lack of money... The benefit against such expenditure would not be worth it in TfL's eyes... as there is already a way out.

[Deleted]

May 18, 2011 20:30:13 GMT aslefshrugged said:

Duhhhhh

;D ;D ;D Irony is as irony does.

[Chris M]

But there isn't a way out for disabled people when the station is unstaffed. They have to go back to Woodford and try again (Woodford being the first station with step free interchange between east and westbound services) - with no guarantee that they wont end up in platform 1 again...

The absolute simplest solution that doesn't require the station to be staffed at all times is to just give train operators the key to open the gate (or make the gate lock something that opens with a key they already carry). I can't think of a scenario where a disabled passenger will arrive on platform 1 on a train without an operator. The operators have to change ends anyway so it shouldn't be an issue other than on the tightest of turnarounds (although I can't actually remember where the gate is in relation to the train).

[Deleted]

Have it open with the Radar Key Scheme Key. Done!

[Deleted]

May 18, 2011 20:53:19 GMT Chris M said:

But there isn't a way out for disabled people when the station is unstaffed. They have to go back to Woodford and try again (Woodford being the first station with step free interchange between east and westbound services) - with no guarantee that they wont end up in platform 1 again...

The absolute simplest solution that doesn't require the station to be staffed at all times is to just give train operators the key to open the gate (or make the gate lock something that opens with a key they already carry). I can't think of a scenario where a disabled passenger will arrive on platform 1 on a train without an operator. The operators have to change ends anyway so it shouldn't be an issue other than on the tightest of turnarounds (although I can't actually remember where the gate is in relation to the train).

At the foot of the stairs if memory serves. The only keys we all carry are the RKL220 and the J door key. Otherwise you're looking at issuing 400 odd keys to all Central Line TOps. But then it's not our job to deal with station stuff, we are contracted to deal with train-side matters.

Obviously we wouldn't be able to assist with any ticket issues, have absolutely no idea what those are....

[North End]

May 18, 2011 20:10:01 GMT @whistlekiller said:

If they don't intend sending Central Line trains to Ongar again and continue to refuse EOR access to Epping, why don't they just cut the tracks and do the High Barnet solution?

Because the track beyond Epping acts as an over-run. The entire length of the former East Siding, and a similar length of the Ongar branch, remain part of the operational railway. If that length of track wasn't available, the approach speed for incoming trains would be considerably reduced. This arrangement currently allows trains to enter Epping at near full speed.

[auxsetreq]

May 18, 2011 21:53:59 GMT aslefshrugged said:

The only keys we all carry are the RKL220 and the J door key.

And your bottle opener don't forget. To open those bottles of Jubilee fizz.......

Lots of options on this conundrum........

Float em over on a balloon, cherry pick em, catapult them across on a mediaeval trebuchet, or just give em a plain old piggy back over the bridge <<< Just think how good that'll look on your CV! "I wanna be a temporary DTSM and watch *Don't Scare The Hare* on DVD all day. After all I piggy backed some punters over the bridge at Epping in 2011" - "Good for you old boy. Here's a white shirt, but give it back after you're all settled in....."......

[Chris M]

May 18, 2011 21:53:59 GMT aslefshrugged said:

Obviously we wouldn't be able to assist with any ticket issues, have absolutely no idea what those are....

Well neither will the non-existent member of staff on the main platform.

So, proposing a solution that might be a bit too radical. Why not just install a stand alone Oyster reader and leave the gate open? Mark the non-station approach to the gate as being for ticket holders only, and you're fine. Ticket holder only entrances work fine (afaik) at places like Snaresbrook and Farringdon.

[Deleted]

Or an extra wide gate? Surely, that's the best option?