Maximum Speed Through Open Tube Stations

[Deleted]

Hi All,
What's the maximum speed you can take a non-stopping train, either special or freight, through a tube station open for service and does the same apply to the surface lines ?

[District Dave]

The normal speed is 5mph, unless otherwise posted.

The reason for this is because the overlap on the Station Starter and the next signal (i.e. the braking space between the two signals) may be short and would not allow a train which had passed the Station Starter at Danger to be stopped before reaching the train in the section ahead if it were to pass through the station at Line Speed.

Yes, Different rules apply on the sub surface lines; on the District there are speed limits posted at the ends of platforms between Hammersmith and Acton Town - these are for non-stopping trains. The Met must have similar arrangements because of their 'fast' services.

I have no doubt someone will be able to expand on that!

[Deleted]

The reason why there are speed limits posted at stations between Hammersmith and Acton Town is because the station starter overlaps at the relevant local line signals are in fact suitable for 25mph; this was probably set up this way because of the possibility that Piccadilly trains would be diverted via the local lines and would subsequently need to non-stop the District stations.

On the Met slow lines between Harrow and Watford South Junction, the station starter overlaps at the relevant slow line signals are suitable for line speed - a Met train can zoom through at 50mph.

BAET and others have said that new signalling projects will eschew short overlaps (or their all-singing all-dancing equivalents) in favour of track circuit timers, to hold train speeds down to an appropriate value.

[Deleted]

On the Network Rail sections we can go through at full line speed.

[Phil]

Just a reminder to use the 'search' functionfolks. We have done this topic at least twice in exhaustive (exhausting?) detail in the last 8 months. Of course, newbies won't know that but it's always worth a try

districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=Stations&action=display&thread=1164733148
districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=jubilee&action=display&thread=1164228616
districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1154980250

I found these three in exactly 7 mins - not a huge amount of time you'll admit

[Deleted]

Thanks Guys,

Sorry Phil , I'll do a search next time and thanks for the links.

[Deleted]

On the Met/Jubilee and District/Picc where fast trains use local lines in most cases the speed through platforms is 25mph.

[happybunny]

But if a train driver is rushing to get to the depot to finish... and there is nothing in front.... and it is open section.. greens all the way (you can see where I am going) will he really slow down to 5mph for an empty platform???

[Deleted]

he would SPAD though as the station starter would not clear... yes?

[happybunny]

rob said:

he would SPAD though as the station starter would not clear... yes?

Not true.... a lot of station starters, with automatic signals as the starter, are clear by default. Meaning that unless a train is in the section ahead it is clear all the time. Even ones with Semi-automatic starters clear when a train approaches the station.. of course every Station is different. But on a lot of out-stations you can see the aspect of the starter, either on the signal itself or on the repeater, before you are even close to the platform

[Colin]

happybunny said:

But if a train driver is rushing to get to the depot to finish... and there is nothing in front.... and it is open section.. greens all the way (you can see where I am going) will he really slow down to 5mph for an empty platform???

If he/she is a professional and values their job, yes they will slow down! That said, in reality we never do 5 mph - it's more like 10 - 15 mph.

[Tubeboy]

I remember when Dollis Hill [Jubilee] was closed for a fire alert recently, the L/C instructed drivers to run through at full line speed.

[happybunny]

colin said:

If he/she is a professional and values their job, yes they will slow down! That said, in reality we never do 5 mph - it's more like 10 - 15 mph.

That's what I meant

[trc666]

If a station were to be closed for a long period (i.e. for rebuilding / lift replacement etc), is it possible to cut out the station starter to allow trains to pass through at linespeed?

[happybunny]

I very much doubt it. probably impossible without changing the whole signalling system

[Colin]

trc666 said:

If a station were to be closed for a long period (i.e. for rebuilding / lift replacement etc), is it possible to cut out the station starter to allow trains to pass through at linespeed?

You can't just do away with a signal! As AGC says, it's part of the signalling system - which is installed to keep trains a safe distance apart. If a station is closed for any reason - emergency or planned - the station starting signal must still be obeyed.