De-training Passengers From 35TS

[elo10538]

A question that arose during last weekends run on the LTM's 38TS 4 car Unit, in connection with the Amersham Heritage Day, was how were passengers detrained in an emergency from the 35TS with the Streamlined front cabs? I know the driving position in these Streamlined cabs was in the centre, with the controls on either side of the seat. The question was how did the passengers detrain in an emergency.I imagine it was through the J door and then the cab M door, down the emergency ladders, but with a seat in the centre of the cab, did the passengers have to file around either side of the seat or was the seat able to be stowed out of the way in such rare emergency situations ? I certainly didn't know the answer, can anyone help with this ?

[SE13]

Weren't they the ones that became part of the 38ts?

I've got a picture somewhere, I'll come back to this one - The main point of the post is to remind myself.

However, from memory, they were Piccadilly Line trains only, and in units of 2 rather than 4, so not sure how they were formed up, nor where they ran from/to. Don't think there were many made either - There was something at Acton about them, but the last time I was there was about 18 months ago.

I'll come back to this when I've found a picture...

EDIT

www.ltmcollection.org/images/webmax/61/i0000b61.jpg

Still begs the question as to how they were detrained as that one shows nothing obvious....

[Rich32]

Might be worth while having a look at Paul Moss' excellent Underground Movement, if you have a copy. Mine isn't to hand to look at, but it has a good chunk about the streamlined stock.

With regards to detrainment, I can't recall how it was described as such. However I can recall they were all 2-car units, as was the plan for the O & P stocks. 3 pairs of streamlined and one pair of flat-fronted (i.e. the real 38 prototype) were produced, all with detail differences to finishes and traction and auxiliary equipment, for assessment.

If SE13 doesn't beat me to it, I'll dig the book out and add/amend to what I've already put.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2011 17:30:50 GMT SE13 said:

I'll come back to this when I've found a picture...

EDIT

www.ltmcollection.org/images/webmax/61/i0000b61.jpg

Was that really a London Underground train??? It looks like something from the wild west, in fact I found myself checking that it's not April 1st

[norbitonflyer]

Brian Hardy's Undergrojnd Train File (which has a picture of a streamlined 35TS on the front cover) says there were 24 cars of 35TS, formed into twelve 2-car units, of which the last three were not streamlined. They were intended to run as 6-car trains.
They entered service on the Piccadilly Line in 1937, but the last (flat fronted) units were transferred to the Northern after a couple of months
All twelve units were stored during the war. The streamliners were converted to trailers in 1950/51, and ran in 1938 stock UNDM units on the Northern Line, the last withdrawn in about 1972. Four different types of electrical equipment had been trialled in the 35TS - the type found to work best was recovered from the streamlined units to which it had been fitted and re-used in the flat fronted units which went to the Central to operate its shuttle services in deepest Essex, and also on the Aldwych shuttle, (one unit was damaged trying to go to Waterloo). They were withdrawn in 1966

[Deleted]

Doesn't the pointy profile of the front permit exit from the driver side doors (M?) in a slightly more confined space?

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2011 20:34:00 GMT @dalston said:

Doesn't the pointy profile of the front permit exit from the driver side doors (M?) in a slightly more confined space?

This is a very valid point. If the single centrally located seat is as close to the windscreen as today's trains then it would have been positioned a long way forward leaving a lot of room behind it for exiting passengers.

[norbitonflyer]

1935TS drivers cab interior view The seat is reversed in this picture, so maybe it can be moved in other ways as well. It's not at all obvious how the driver gets to it when it's the right way round.

the side doors were hinged at the front and opened inwards (they doubled as guards doors). Nevertheless it looks as if it would have been very difficult in a tunnel to climb over the flared skirt and round the grab rail to get onto the track.

And here's a steamlined STANDARD stock control trailer - never ran in service.

[metman]

The plan for the streamlined trains was actually to run them as 7 car trains post-war and 3 trailers with no compressors were built for them. However, the design was not popular with LT management who didn't like the steamline effect (it left a gap between the cars when coupled) and drivers couldn't stand and drive them. They redesigned some of the front ends (so they could be driven standing) during the war but these were also unpopular. In the end as has been said they became trailers and worked on the Northern Line.

They streamlined cab would have been very difficult to exit from, perhaps this was one of the reasons why they were aborted?

[t697]

I wonder whether the unpopularity of 35TS cabs with drivers might also have been associated with poor signal sighting and sighting station stop markers etc, sitting further back than in other trains of the time. Also, being central rather than to the left would not have suited many already installed signal sightlines.

[roythebus]

The design is rather similar to the Deutsche Reichsbahn "Flying Hamburger" diesel units of the same era. I think Roco and Maerklin done models of them for reference.

[The Tram Man]

Sept 20, 2011 19:28:04 GMT norbitonflyer said:

(one unit was damaged trying to go to Waterloo)

What? Damaged how?

[jswallow]

Overran at Aldwych - buffer stop collision, hence the "trying to go to Waterloo" line.

Having trouble googling the date, want to say it was in the 50's but not 100%.

[The Tram Man]

Thanks, mate. That's a bummer.

[norbitonflyer]

Sept 29, 2011 19:40:14 GMT jswallow said:

Overran at Aldwych - buffer stop collision, hence the "trying to go to Waterloo" line.

Having trouble googling the date, want to say it was in the 50's but not 100%.

3rd April 1955 - it was DM 11010 - the cab was repaired using standard 1938 stock doors which subtly changed its appearance.

[Ben]

Also gained round marker lights didn't it?