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Post by vic09 on Mar 17, 2012 20:16:29 GMT
Does anyone think that the 09 stock will reach 60mph once the New timetable goes live and the new signalling is complete.They do have a red bar on the speedos restricting them but on some parts of the line this is removed and it looks like they would be able To reach this. I am pretty sure that it is 50 max for the line, but the reason I am asking this is because I got let into the cab one day back in September at Brixton and the speedos shown that they can hit 60.
Thanks
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Post by jardine01 on Mar 17, 2012 22:23:15 GMT
I think they should reach 60mph all the modern stocks are catable of this speed.
60mph between stations will really cut Journey times however 60 Will probally not be achivable on the shorter sections.
Is the 2009 stock on full Preformance mode yet? They are allot Faster than the 1996 stock but I am sure they could a be a little bit quicker off the mark.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 22:41:26 GMT
Their design speed is 80 kph (50 mph), they will never do above this. My car has 160mph on the clock but doesn't mean it will do that.....
jardine - they are not limited at the moment. Only further increase in performance you will get is if the line voltage is ever upped.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 22:45:14 GMT
The 09 stock will never do 60, 50 is top speed. When the final timetable comes in they will probably even rarely hit 50 because there will be soooo many trains out there. We run 37 in peak times at the moment, with the final timetable they want us to run 43, there will be no leeway for service recovery and top speed will probably never be reached lol!!!
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Post by plasmid on Mar 18, 2012 0:36:49 GMT
The Victoria Line will benefit from more trains running at a slower speed and thus closer together, this is the only way to achieve 33 TPH. If the trains ran faster than 50mph then 33 TPH would not be possible. Trains running above 50mph would only benefit longer lines such as the Central, but even they are now limited 50mph in ATO.
On a different scenario the speedo in my car displays 140mph, the engine only has 3 cylinders so you can figure out the answer to that yourself!
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Post by vic09 on Mar 18, 2012 8:17:44 GMT
This is all very true but could they do 60 finsbury park to seven sisters and back maybe?
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Post by mcmaddog on Mar 18, 2012 9:25:07 GMT
This is all very true but could they do 60 finsbury park to seven sisters and back maybe? a couple of posts before yours suggests that 50 is the train limit too regardless of what you saw on the speedo. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 18, 2012 9:28:57 GMT
They have been designed for 50mph, so they'll have been tested for 55mph. That's all they'll do.
Moreover the train and signalling system are tightly integrated and so the signalling system won't permit higher speeds.
All that said, I imagine Mallard wasn't designed for 126mph, so one must "never say never"!
The basic design could be geared for a different top speed, but that would be no use on the Victoria Line
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Post by vic09 on Mar 18, 2012 9:45:08 GMT
43 tph!!!!!! That's a joke they will be coming into the platform as soon as one departs. And they are gonna be queuing in the tunnels around Brixton for ages.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Mar 18, 2012 10:13:49 GMT
@ vic09
+1
When will the suits realise that when they build more "features" into the system to enable such fantasies as 43tph, the more trains will stack up between stations and thereby delays are now being built into the system which in turn as an inevitable consequence will cause FEWER tph and not more. You couldn't make it up!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 11:47:19 GMT
IMO poor planning - a top speed of 50mph in the 21st century on a line that runs "fast trains" in the peaks! The class 165's that share these lines have a top speed of 75mph - Maybe this is the real reason for for reduction fast services on the MET?
XF
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Post by andypurk on Mar 18, 2012 12:10:03 GMT
IMO poor planning - a top speed of 50mph in the 21st century on a line that runs "fast trains" in the peaks! The class 165's that share these lines have a top speed of 75mph - Maybe this is the real reason for for reduction fast services on the MET? XF This discussion is about 2009 stock on the Victoria line, not S-stock on the Met!! No fast services on the Victoria line. I don't think that the S-stock is / will be limited to 50mph. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 15:22:35 GMT
43 tph!!!!!! That's a joke... No, it's something that you've got confused about! It will not be 43tph, it will be 43 trains on the line - an entirely different thing. Have a read again of what was said and it makes sense. castlebar: -1! |
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Post by vic09 on Mar 18, 2012 15:32:47 GMT
Oh ha ha that's good I was gonna say 43tph would mean that the trains would rarely get past 40mph let alone 60
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 16:32:17 GMT
43 tph!!!!!! That's a joke... No, it's something that you've got confused about! It will not be 43tph, it will be 43 trains on the line - an entirely different thing. Have a read again of what was said and it makes sense. castlebar: -1! Having a senior moment XF |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 8:08:25 GMT
In France the usual speed limit for the Metro is 43 mph. Only Line 14 which is NOPO is permitted to do 50 mph so by metro standards I think our speeds are just fine.
One thing I'm curious about - modern French metro steel wheeled trains have a quoted acceleration rate of 0.9 metres per second per second. The S stock will in the future achieve 1.3 metres per second per second. But how?
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Post by tecchy on Mar 19, 2012 8:23:32 GMT
In France the usual speed limit for the Metro is 43 mph. Only Line 14 which is NOPO is permitted to do 50 mph so by metro standards I think our speeds are just fine. One thing I'm curious about - modern French metro steel wheeled trains have a quoted acceleration rate of 0.9 metres per second per second. The S stock will in the future achieve 1.3 metres per second per second. But how? The fact that every axle is motorised and now sanding is going to be fitted (only when ATO) which allows for extra grip. Bombardier probably have the weight to power ratio down to a T too. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 8:41:13 GMT
In France the usual speed limit for the Metro is 43 mph. Only Line 14 which is NOPO is permitted to do 50 mph so by metro standards I think our speeds are just fine. One thing I'm curious about - modern French metro steel wheeled trains have a quoted acceleration rate of 0.9 metres per second per second. The S stock will in the future achieve 1.3 metres per second per second. But how? The fact that every axle is motorised and now sanding is going to be fitted (only when ATO) which allows for extra grip. Bombardier probably have the weight to power ratio down to a T too. It's going to be interesting for sure. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_2000 is the latest steel wheeled metro with installed power of 1800 kW for 5 cars. An S8 has just over 2000 kW for 8 cars. S stocks are similar to class 378s and many have complained about how slow they are! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 10:32:22 GMT
Bombardier probably have the weight to power ratio down to a T too. The trains could be a fair bit lighter!! 09 Stock can also accelerate at 1.3 m/s/s. Firstly the train needs enough power, then it needs enough adhesion. Providing there is enough power: 1.3/9.81 = 13.2% adhesion required. 0.9/9.81 = 9.2 % adhesion required. I would think S Stock will only accelerate at that rate in tunnel. I think the adhesion level guaranteed in the contract in tunnel is 15 or 16% from memory. Sanding, AFAIK will only operate when wheel slide protection kicks in, i.e. under braking only. |
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Post by jardine01 on Mar 22, 2012 20:27:19 GMT
I can't see why 60mph is not possible all modern tube stocks should reach 62mph. Even if they are designed for 50mph in service but the top speed could be higher take the S stock
designed for 62mph limited so it probally can do more than that
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 21:47:20 GMT
I can't see why 60mph is not possible all modern tube stocks should reach 62mph. Even if they are designed for 50mph in service but the top speed could be higher take the S stock designed for 62mph limited so it probally can do more than that Why would you want a train to do 62mph if you can have more trains travelling at 50mph to shift more people, which after all, is the whole point of the system. All of it is governed by the time it takes to get the passengers on the train at the station (which apart from making the doors massive, you can't really speed up) and if that means you reach saturation point at 50mph then that's that. |
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Post by jardine01 on Mar 23, 2012 20:21:47 GMT
I see what you mean Whistlekiller but even if it was just a few longer streches like Seven Sisters to Finsbury Park or Highbury to Kings Cross at 60mph would speed up Journey times.
Yet the Jubilee line can do 57 mph between certain stations hows this?
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Post by vic09 on Mar 23, 2012 20:30:28 GMT
Yes exactly I completely agree with you jardine01, everybody think of seven sisters northbound, you are allways held there for about 3 to 4 minutes. This is a main problem on the vic. If the trains did 60 between finsbury park and seven sisters, this would eliminate that and there will be more trains through the platform and less overcrowding. This will also reduce overcrowding on trains, if the jubilee can do it why not the vic??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 9:38:45 GMT
everybody think of seven sisters northbound, you are allways held there for about 3 to 4 minutes. This is a main problem on the vic. If the trains did 60 between finsbury park and seven sisters, this would eliminate that and there will be more trains through the platform I really can't see any logic behind what you're talking about. Seven Sisters is a place at which a certain amount of stand time is allowed and a crew changeover point. |
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Post by andypurk on Mar 24, 2012 10:56:51 GMT
everybody think of seven sisters northbound, you are allways held there for about 3 to 4 minutes. This is a main problem on the vic. If the trains did 60 between finsbury park and seven sisters, this would eliminate that and there will be more trains through the platform I really can't see any logic behind what you're talking about. Seven Sisters is a place at which a certain amount of stand time is allowed and a crew changeover point. And the Victoria line is still pretty much running to the old 1967 stock timings, as can be seen from the longer than necessary stops at many other locations (especially I find King's Cross). Running at 60 mph would just mean waiting even longer for the timetabled departure time; adjusting the timetable would be the way to reduce the waiting time and I'm sure this will happen once the new signaling has commissioned over the whole line. |
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Post by jardine01 on Mar 24, 2012 11:47:02 GMT
But the Jubilee line can do it so why not Victoria line? The Jubilee line still has timings and crew change over points at stations. 50mph is fast but when the new timetable comes every minute counts so why can't it not just go full belt?
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 24, 2012 13:26:02 GMT
But the Jubilee line can do it so why not Victoria line? The Jubilee line still has timings and crew change over points at stations. 50mph is fast but when the new timetable comes every minute counts so why can't it not just go full belt? Possibly because of the wind speeds. PEDs would be the answer, but would it be worth the money spent? Besides, why all the rushing to get to wherever by yesterday? And it's not very environmentally friendly either. Higher speeds means greater power consumption with more heat produced and more power being used to get rid of it. Hasn't the Vic just recommissioned previously disused ventilation shafts to get rid of the latter? An old vid showing the heat problems, albeit before the regen brakes were switched on.......... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13946364 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 13:55:52 GMT
I thought the whole point of a metro system was to move as many passengers as possible, not to run the trains as fast as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 20:50:21 GMT
I thought the whole point of a metro system was to move as many passengers as possible, not to run the trains as fast as possible. You know that, I know that and so do the majority of logical people. However, it would appear that this logic is lost somewhere when speed is concerned. As a comparison, the motorway speed limit is 70mph. Why is it then that my journey home from London to Scunthorpe on Fridays is at an average of 50mph? I'll tell you why.......there are too many cars and lorries to allow 70mph. In the end though, a lot more people per hour get home than would be possible at 70mph. Jardine and Vic.....I share your frustration at this reduction in maximum possible speed but take a step back and understand its not important. No one is inconvenienced and you'll one day appreciate speed isn't the answer to everything. |
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 25, 2012 9:02:17 GMT
Here's a copy and paste from elsewhere................
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vic Line WTT34
Submitted on 25 March, 2012 - 00:47
LU plan to implement a new Vic Line timetable in May to take advantage of the
train and signalling upgrade. Only problem: none of it works as intended. The £9m trains each throw up all manner of defects. Their potential speed cannot
be relied upon; LU are implementing changes slower than planned, even cutting sections out of doors to reduce problems.
But this hasn’t stopped them putting more trains on an already overcrowded
line. For drivers, this means more peak, off peak & weekend working: potentially 28 days without a weekend rest day. Timetable 35 planned for Jan 2013 will be worse.
Changing ends at Brixton has been reduced to 4mins. Have you ever tried to get off a train, go to the toilet, wash your hands, walk the length of the platform and get back on the other end of the train, ready to go in less than 4mins?
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