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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2007 21:18:32 GMT
1. How are station groups defined? Are they defined based on absolute number of stations in the group, or are they defined by simply lumping all of the stations around a major station together?
2. Are staff rostered to work at a given station, or at a given station group? If the latter, are they generally certified to work at any of the stations within the group?
3. Are staff members rotated amongst the members of the group, or can they pick a station to work at full-time?
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Post by c5 on Mar 17, 2007 21:31:45 GMT
They are usually grouped so that there are around 100 staff per group. The Group is looked after by a Centurion Manager in this case a GSM. Some groups only have 2 stations: Victoria and Warren Street. Where as the Earl's Court Group includes stations down to Wimbledon Park. Each Group will have a set number of Rostered staff that usually only work at one station (but can if familiarised and licensed work at another) and the Reserves will usually work across the Group. Station staff can nominate for Rostered positions (in the same way as T/Ops but I dont know much about this process, other than what goes in the TC). Each station group belongs to a line (obviously ) but can sometimes change, as they did when Timmy took over. When the JLE opened London Bridge, Waterloo and Westminster were operated by Jubilee line staff. Another anomoly is the Gloucester Road Group (Bayswater-Sloane Sq, but not Notting Hill Gate). It used to be a District Group but is now a H&C and Circle Group, even though all bar Bayswater come under the control of the District line service wise. Even though there is one London Underground it is sometimes "difficult" to arrange things if the station doesnt belong to the line that needs something doing. Hope this hels. If I have just confused you further just shout!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2007 22:49:42 GMT
It's also virtually impossible to arrange things with stations that aren't on your group. A station 5 mins down the road but on another group might as well be on a different planet.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 18, 2007 4:38:06 GMT
I can give you a full run down of all the groups - but not right now as I need to go bed..............maybe in few days when I've got some free time
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Post by Tubeboy on Mar 18, 2007 8:38:46 GMT
Yes, as Zedex said, staff are either reserve [cover all the stations on a particular group] or rostered [always work at one particular station, bar overtime and emergency cover]. In my experience, reserve staff, rarely work ALL the stations on a group, unless it is a small group [in terms of stations]. My old group [Camden] had seven stations, very few staff worked at every station over a given period. All new sa's start off as group reserve. In time, they can obtain a rostered position if they wish. I nominated to become rostered after 2 months after starting. Rostered and reserve both have pros and cons, but personally, I prefer rostered. Reserves only know their roster four weeks in advance, whereas rostered staff will do the same schedule, until the rosters are changed [which apart from the SWW [shorter working week] have rarely changed. As to nominating a different group, unless it is promotion, you have to be at your current location for at least 12 months. Similarly, when you move, you will have to be there for 12 months before you can nominate again [bar promotion] Obviously some station groups [like depots] are more popular than others, so their waiting lists for transfers will be longer. As to a line's station groups, let us pick the Northern! ;D Edgware group is all stations from Edgware-Belsize Park. Finchley Central group is High Barnet-Archway [including Mill Hill East] Camden Town group is Chalk Farm, Tufnell Park, Kentish Town, Camden Town, Mornington Crescent, Angel and Old Street. Goodge Street group is Goodge St, Euston and TCR. Some Z1 stations are someties paired with stations on another line [and are therefore managed by management of another line]. Kings Cross is paired with Farringdon and Barbican. Warren St is with Victoria. Leicester Square is with.....I think...?? Picc Circus and Covent Garden?? Charing Cross is a Bakerloo group, goes down to Elephant I believe. Embankment is a District group. Waterloo is with Westminster. Moorgate is with Liverpool St I think. Bank is with Monument. London Bridge is a Jubilee group, and is paired with Southwark and Bermondsey. Kennington/Oval Group is Borough-......Clapham South? Then Colliers Wood group is Balham?-Morden. Someone correct me if I am wrong, especially the Southern end. What is the biggest group, in terms of numbers of stations? I know East Ham group goes out to Upminster Bridge, and Harrow Group is quite large. Any more? Sorry! Forgot to answer one of your points TOK, staff being certified to work at different stations. If one of your stations on a group has a lift or escalator, and you are not trained/licensed in that equipment, then you cant work there [in theory! ] When you join a group, you are trained in lifts and/or escalators, if they are on that group. Some groups dont have them, so you dont need training. Also if you are, say, trained in lifts then dont work at a lift station for 6 months, then your licence has expired, and you will need to be retrained. My group has lifts and escalators, so I am licensed for both.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2007 9:51:08 GMT
So, if you are a Reserve, and cover ajacent station on t' same group, and they have different types of Escy's and Eley's, I'd guess you'd need a licence for each type?
Not o'fay with stations side of ops, do please educate me!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2007 9:59:31 GMT
Just to confirm Lord Tubeboy's south end of the Northern.
The Morden group is indeed Balham - Morden.
Also: Picc Circus is under the OXO group. Leicester Square is with Covent Garden & Russel Square. Moorgate is indeed with Liverpool Street and Charing X does indeed go down to Elephant.
And rostered staff CAN work at more than one location, if the other stations are a part of their roster. I'm rostered but work at 3 stations. I'm familiarised and evac trained (and track familiarised ;D ) at all 3 stations but the rest of the group I'm not.
Biggest group?
Greenford group is all Central Line stations west of White City, including Ealing Bdy (but not White City).
Rickmansworth, Wembley Park, Acton Town are all large groups as well.
1 licence will cover all types of escalators and another all types of lifts, with local training on variations especially with lifts.
On a lift/ escalaltor group all reserves will have both lift & escalator licence but rostered staff will only have both licences if the stations they work at have both facilities. (unless the GSM want's flexibility amongst their staff).
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Post by Tubeboy on Mar 18, 2007 10:02:27 GMT
Yes you would.
But I don't know of any station that has two different types of escalator at the one location.
Anyone know any?
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Post by trainopd78 on Mar 18, 2007 10:03:18 GMT
The Elephant was always a Bakerloo station, but as you say the Oval group goes from Borough right down to Clapham South excluding E&C. In my short time as reserve I worked Clapham North only once, but the others I worked more frequently. When I got the chance to be rostered after 4 months I was asked to choose either Stockwell or Kennington. I ran to Kennington as far as the flames behind could carry me.
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Post by c5 on Mar 18, 2007 10:07:25 GMT
Yes you would. But I don't know of any station that has two different types of escalator at the one location. Anyone know any? London Bridge, Waterloo...? I'm only saying that coz of the JLE! The Liv St Group (C&H) also includes Aldgate. The North Met Groups are Harrow Group (Preston Road all atations to Uxbridge) and Rickmansworth Group (All stations North Harrow to Watford, Chesham and Amersham) Both are currently under one GSM!
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Post by Tubeboy on Mar 18, 2007 10:14:53 GMT
Funny, I was thinking of Waterloo. Yeah, I know about the GSM! ;D Should be paid twice! Diverging slightly, Stockwell control room has a great roster, a week of earlies, a week of lates, long weekend every 3 weeks, only do 1 sunday in 3. Nominated it, but didn't get it! Oh its Morden group now. Ok. Yes, rostered staff can work at more than one station, but usually its not the case. Exceptions being, covering gaps between shifts, and meal breaks etc. Also there are some quirks in the rosters which demand it!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Mar 18, 2007 15:42:43 GMT
An old friend of mine used to train station persons on the lifts at Hillingdon. Apparently theyre non-standard or something. The name was Steve McOstrich; havent seen him in years regrettably!
Harrow group has its fair share of characters!
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Post by c5 on Mar 18, 2007 15:45:17 GMT
An old friend of mine used to train station persons on the lifts at Hillingdon. Apparently theyre non-standard or something. The name was Steve McOstrich; havent seen him in years regrettably! Harrow group has its fair share of characters! Yup. It definatly does ;D ;D ;D
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Post by setttt on Mar 18, 2007 19:06:10 GMT
An old friend of mine used to train station persons on the lifts at Hillingdon. Apparently theyre non-standard or something. The name was Steve McOstrich; havent seen him in years regrettably! He did my lift training at Belsize Park about 4 months back! I bump into him quite a bit - we're based in the same building.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Mar 18, 2007 19:54:18 GMT
Before they had reserve staff and the Underground was split into divisions eg:Met/Jubilee,District/Picc,Central/Bakerloo and Northern/Victoria,the relief staff had to cover anywhere on that division for instance someone on Northern/Victoria division could cover any station/signal box on that division.Was great when they paid travelling time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2007 23:18:40 GMT
my old station group is paddington, this is hammersmith(h&c) to edgware rd
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2007 8:54:32 GMT
First group I worked on was Notting Hill Gate group - NHG, Holland Pk, Shepherds Bush (C) and White City - great group. The Central is a really good line to work on. I think the other groups are something like this:
Buckhurst Hill Group - Epping to Snaresbrook (Could be slightly wrong) Barkingside Group - All stations round the Hainault loop (also, could be wrong too) Leyton Group - Leytonstone to Bethnal Green Bank Group - Bank to Holborn Bond Street Group - Bond St to Queensway Notting Hill Group - NHG to White City Greenford Group - Anything else westwards.
The Buckhurst and Barkingside examples I've given give a rough idea of where the groups are located, but in the case of Snaresbrook, Sth Woodford and Woodford, I'm not 100% about their groups. The other stations in those groups I've listed are pretty accurate.
Other stations in the middle are:
Liverpool St - not sure of group name, but it's a Circle/H&C group Tottenham Ct Rd - Northern Line Goodge St group Oxford Circus - Bakerloo Line OXO group
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Post by Colin on Mar 23, 2007 11:05:48 GMT
I can give you a full run down of all the groups - but not right now as I need to go bed..............maybe in few days when I've got some free time As said, I'll do a full list - but I need an hour or so to type it all out which I haven't got at the moment.........should have it done by monday at the latest
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 21, 2007 20:15:39 GMT
Still waiting COLIN!
Liverpool St is with Moorgate and Aldgate.
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Post by Colin on Jun 22, 2007 0:28:21 GMT
Ah yes - I'd forgotton all about this thread ...........
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Post by Colin on Jun 22, 2007 2:08:25 GMT
Right then........there may be one or two errors especially as some groups have moved "headquarters" (and therefore changed their group name), but the list I have is:
Bakerloo Line
Marylebone Group
Regents Park Marylebone Edgware Road (Bakerloo) Warwick Avenue Maida Vale Kilburn Park
Oxford Circus Group
Oxford Circus Piccadilly Circus
Charing Cross Group
Charing Cross Lambeth North Elephant & Castle
Queens Park and all stations to Harrow & Wealdstone are not operated by LUL, but may have LUL staff present for detrainment purposes, etc.
Central Line
Greenford Group
West Ruislip Ruislip Gardens South Ruislip Northolt Greenford Perivale Hanger Lane Ealing Broadway West Acton North Acton East Acton
Notting Hill Gate Group
White City Shepherds Bush (Central) Holland Park Notting Hill Gate
Bond Street Group
Queensway Lancaster Gate Marble Arch Bond Street
Bank Group
Holborn Chancery Lane St Pauls Bank/Monument
Leyton Group
Bethnal Green Mile End Leyton Leytonstone
Barkingside Group
Wanstead Redbridge Gants Hill Newbury Park Barkingside Fairlop Hainault Grange Hill Chigwell Roding Valley
Buckhurst Hill Group
Snaresbrook South Woodford Woodford Buckhurst Hill Loughton Debden Theydon bois Epping
Circle and Hammersmith & City Lines
Paddington Group
Hammersmith (H&C) Goldhawk Road Shepherds Bush (H&C) Latimer Road Ladbrooke Grove Westbourne Park Royal Oak Paddington (both) Edgware Road (H&C)
Kings Cross Group
Kings Cross Farringdon Barbican
Liverpool Street Group
Moorgate Liverpool Street Aldgate
Gloucester Road Group
Bayswater High Street Kensington Gloucester Road South Kensington Sloane Square
District Line
Hammersmith Group Chiswick Park Turnham Green Stamford Brook Ravenscourt Park Hammersmith Barons Court West Kensington
Earls Court Group
Earls Court West Brompton Fulham Broadway Parsons Green Putney Bridge East Putney Southfields Wimbledon Park
Embankment Group
St James's Park Embankment Temple Blackfriars Mansion House
Tower Hill Group
Cannon Street Tower Hill Aldgate East Whitechapel Stepney Green Bow Road Bromley-By-Bow
East Ham Group
Plaistow Upton Park East Ham Upney Becontree Dagenham Heathway Dagenham East Elm Park Hornchurch Upminster Bridge
Richmond, Kew Gardens, Gunnersbury, Wimbledon, Kensington Olympia, Barking and Upminster are not operated by LUL - though LUL detrainment staff are provided at Barking by East Ham group.
East London Line
Shadwell Group
Shadwell Wapping Rotherhithe Surrey Keys
New Cross and New Cross Gate are not operated by LUL.
Jubilee Line
Wembley Park Group
Stanmore Canons Park Queensbury Kingsbury Wembley Park Neasden
Willesden Green Group
Dollis Hill Willesden Green Kilburn West Hampstead Finchley Road Swiss Cottage St Johns Wood
Waterloo Group
Westminster Waterloo
London Bridge Group
Southwark London Bridge Bermondsey
Canary Wharf Group
Canada Water Canary Wharf
Stratford Group
North Greenwich Canning Town West Ham Stratford
Metropolitan Line
Rickmansworth Group
Amersham Chesham Chalfont & Latimer Chorleywood Rickmansworth Watford Croxley Moor Park Northwood Northwood Hills Pinner North Harrow
Harrow-On-The-Hill Group
Uxbridge Hillingdon Ickenham Ruislip Ruislip Manor Eastcote Rayners Lane West Harrow Harrow-On-The-Hill Northwick Park Preston Road
Baker Street Group
Baker Street Great Portland Street Euston Square
Northern Line
Edgware Group
Edgware Burnt Oak Colindale Hendon Central Brent Cross Golders Green Hampstead Belsize Park
Mornington Crescent Group
Chalk Farm Camden Town Tufnell Park Kentish Town Mornington Crescent Angel Old Street
Finchley Central Group
High Barnet Totteridge & Whetstone Woodside Park West Finchley Mill Hill East Finchley Central East Finchley Highgate Archway
Goodge Street Group
Euston Goodge Street Tottenham Court Road
Oval Group
Borough Kennington Oval Stockwell Clapham North Clapham Common Clapham South
Morden Group
Balham Tooting Bec Tooting Broadway Colliers Wood South Wimbledon Morden
Piccadilly Line
Heathrow Group
(Heathrow T5) Heathrow T4 Heathrow T123 Hatton Cross Hounslow West Hounslow Central Hounslow East Osterley
Acton Town Group
Boston Manor Northfields South Ealing South Harrow Sudbury Hill Sudbury Town Alperton Park Royal North Ealing Ealing Common Acton Town
Green Park Group
Knightsbridge Hyde Park Corner Green Park
Leicester Square Group
Leicester Square Covent Garden Russell Square
Finsbury Park Group
Caledonian Road Holloway Road Arsenal Finsbury Park Manor House
Arnos Grove Group
Turnpike Lane Wood Green Bounds Green Arnos Grove Southgate Oakwood Cockfosters
Victoria Line
Blackhorse Road Group
Walthamstow Central Blackhorse Road Tottenham Hale Seven Sisters Highbury & Islington
Victoria Group
Warren Street Victoria
Brixton Group
Pimlico Vauxhall Brixton
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 22, 2007 8:11:40 GMT
Top man!
As to the Bakerloo, Willesden and Harrow have a couple of Sa's and an SS3 from start-close of traffic, primarily for detrainments, as you have said.
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Post by c5 on Jun 22, 2007 8:17:59 GMT
Blimey!
The Kings Cross and Liverpool St groups are part of the Circle & Hammersmith lines now.
As an aside, I know that the new Bakerloo ones will go onto their own group, but what about Kew Gardens and Gunnersbury...? Maybe the Hammersmith Group.
Also T5 will be have no LUL staff, unless they decide to have a LUL Supevisor.
Well done there COLIN!!!!
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 22, 2007 11:21:37 GMT
Also T5 will be have no LUL staff Given the number of tourists there, is it a really good decision?
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Post by c5 on Jun 22, 2007 12:50:16 GMT
Also T5 will be have no LUL staff Given the number of tourists there, is it a really good decision? It will be staffed by BAA (aka Heathrow Express Staff)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2007 18:30:28 GMT
Thanks for the useful reference. You can probably take the * off the North Greenwich group on the Jubilee since Version 3.1 works in that group and calls it the North Greenwich group.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2007 18:59:17 GMT
From what I've heard T5 will have a LU SS and CSA for operational purposes as they do at Ealing Bdy, but BAA will sell the tickets.
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Post by DWS on Jun 22, 2007 21:44:02 GMT
Thanks for the useful reference. You can probably take the * off the North Greenwich group on the Jubilee since Version 3.1 works in that group and calls it the North Greenwich group. The GSM is at Stratford, and it is the Stratford Group.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2007 13:27:06 GMT
Indeed DWS is right about Stratford,and as Central Simon mentions earlier in the thread, Colliers Wood Group is now known as Morden Group. I bet your fingers hurt after that post Colin!!!!
Also, I think the H&C Edgware Rd group is now known as Paddington group.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 8, 2007 13:35:20 GMT
Correct Alex.
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