Train numbers...... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Chris W]

A quick question.....

Who decides on the numbers to be used for a particular stock and is there a pattern (i.e. a structure)?.... you can all start rolling your eyes now ;D

For example generally in the BR TOPS system Type 4's were given 4* 001 onwards numbers, type 5's 5* 001 onwards etc etc

I mention this because.... not only that am I very obviously sad ;D ;D ;D, but also I've never understood the apparently random numbering structure

I understand that the 73TS have 3 character numbers, D78's 4 & 5 character numbers (7***, 17*** & 8***), 92TS are numbered with 9***** etc etc

Are these numbers chosen at random or based upon stock, line or design (tube/surface)

OK..... you can all fall asleep again now..... zzzzzzzzzz ;D ;D ;D

[solidbond]

The general idea is that each car is numbered uniquely, such that there are no two cars in the LU fleet with the same number at the same time. Cars within a unit are now numbered such that at least the last two numbers (sometimes three or even four) are the same for each car of the unit (with exceptions for double-ended units). This makes it possible to identify each individual car, and what type of car it is (ie Driving Motor, Trailer, UNDM) from the car number.. Hence a single-end unit of D stock may have the driving motor car as 7021, then the trailer car will be 17021 and the UNDM will be 8021. The numbering is also used, on LU, to help identify which is the A end and which is the D end of a unit. This is particularly important for 'handed' stock, such as D stock, where units can only be coupled a specific way round. (A ends and D ends are so-called because each axle is lettered, A, B, C and D - hence one end of the car will have the 'A' axle, the other end will have the 'D' axle - hence A end and D end )

[Deleted]

solidbond said:

(A ends and D ends are so-called because each axle is lettered, A, B, C and D - hence one end of the car will have the 'A' axle, the other end will have the 'D' axle - hence A end and D end )

You are indeed the font of all stock knowledge! Been on LU driving for 5 years now, and I never even knew why they were referred to as 'A' ends and 'D' ends!!

If I remember correctly, the Jubilee line numbering was:
'A' ended units all numbered evenly, eg the Driving Motor car could be 96002, the Trailer car would be 96202 and the UNDM would be 96402.
'D' ended units are numbered exactly the same way except they would have odd numbers (eg 96001 etc).

The De-icing units on the 96s were (I think) all 'A' end Trailer cars and were numbered completely differently, but I can't remember the numbers now!

[q8]

Similarly with the 'sides' of all stock. IIRC the north or east side is '1' and the south or west '2'

[q8]

When the LPTB was formd in 1933 they had a grand re-numbering of all the stock they acquired from the companies. The scheme they devised was a simple type of number-by-stock one. There werw three groups motor, trailer, control trailer.

The first two digits in a car number denoted the type. E.G 30XX meant a Standard stock motor car. The series carried on in the 3000 series. Trailers were 7xxx and control trailers 5xxx

Surface stock were similar but used EVEN numbers. E.G 4XXX was a motor car and trailers 8XXX.

After the ordering of thousands of new cars in the mid 1930's they had run out of 4 digit numbers so 5 digit nomination was used with as far as possible the first 2 digits denoting the position of a car in a train.

[Deleted]

I always thought that the first two digits on 92TS and 96TS denoted the year of construction, with the first two digits on 95TS merely denoting the batch number for that particular stock build.

[Dmitri]

alanl said:

why they were referred to as 'A' ends and 'D' ends

www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Rolling%20Stock.htm#Orientation

[Deleted]

q8 said:

When the LPTB was formd in 1933 they had a grand re-numbering of all the stock they acquired from the companies.

One wonders why, given that the LPTB was really just an expansion of the "Underground Combine", which already owned all the railways except the Met.

[Deleted]

On a pedantic note that might save future confusion, what we're talking about here is CAR numbers - train numbers are what identifies a particular train in the timetable and can be changed as required, but the car number permanently identifies a piece of rolling stock.

[citysig]

To be even more pedantic, CAR numbers are those which identify individual cars, and SET numbers are those allocated to each train to identify where they are meant to be going - and they are not always in the timetable. Train Numbers is a handy guide at the front of our working timetables which tells us how many trains should be running throughout the day.

[q8]

One wonders why, given that the LPTB was really just an expansion of the "Underground Combine", which already owned all the railways except the Met.
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You are quite right in that and the LPTB scheme was just an expansion of a series started by the combine in 1926/7