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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 19:55:06 GMT
Some of you may have seen the Metropolitan line thread about the Met line timetable which has raised issues of TfL's accountability for services it provides to locations outside of the GLA area.
Does anyone know how TfL propose to ensure democratic input for Crossrail users outside of London. As I understand it, Crossrail will take over some National Rail services currently provided by Greater Anglia, First Great Western and SouthEastern.
That being the case, will passengers on those routes become victims of a democratic deficit in the same way as Metropolitan line users from north of Moor Park, who have recently suffered a serious reduction in the service they receive but have no way of calling to account the London Mayor or GLA representatives as they cannot vote for them?
Interested in how TfL might be looking to address this. Can't see Maidenhead man or woman taking too kindly to being ignored!
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Post by andypurk on Oct 31, 2012 21:28:17 GMT
Some of you may have seen the Metropolitan line thread about the Met line timetable which has raised issues of TfL's accountability for services it provides to locations outside of the GLA area. Does anyone know how TfL propose to ensure democratic input for Crossrail users outside of London. As I understand it, Crossrail will take over some National Rail services currently provided by Greater Anglia, First Great Western and SouthEastern. They will only be taking over services from Greater Anglia and First Great Western. The service will only connect to South Eastern at Woolwich and Abbey Wood and won't take over any trains (at least initially). As the current National Rail services are specified by the DfT, there isn't really much democratic input at the moment. I doubt that TfL will have the only say in the timetable offered, as there will be a large amount of interaction with the other, faster, services run by the parallel franchises. DfT will still have an input and the service will still need subsidy. Maidenhead is still planned to have 2 tph running semi-fast to Paddington, operated by the Greater Western Franchise holder, with an additional 4tph running fast to/from Paddington during the peaks. I think that the idea of there being a democratic input into any rail services offered is an illusion anyway. |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 1, 2012 0:01:17 GMT
Some of you may have seen the Metropolitan line thread about the Met line timetable which has raised issues of TfL's accountability for services it provides to locations outside of the GLA area. Does anyone know how TfL propose to ensure democratic input for Crossrail users outside of London. As I understand it, Crossrail will take over some National Rail services currently provided by Greater Anglia, First Great Western and SouthEastern. That being the case, will passengers on those routes become victims of a democratic deficit in the same way as Metropolitan line users from north of Moor Park, who have recently suffered a serious reduction in the service they receive but have no way of calling to account the London Mayor or GLA representatives as they cannot vote for them? Interested in how TfL might be looking to address this. Can't see Maidenhead man or woman taking too kindly to being ignored! TfL already consult a wide range of stakeholders in and outside Greater London including councils, MPs and user groups. Many proposals are now open to public consultation via the TfL website. There is also a TfL Board Member, Charles Belcher, who has the express brief of representing users from outside of Greater London. www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/boardandchiefofficers/1432.aspxMr Belcher is an extremely experienced railwayman so is well equipped to take on this brief in the context of Crossrail services. TfL obviously provide part of the service into Bushey and Watford Junction so the issue already exists today. I agree with the previous comment about quite how much "democratic representation" there is with the DfT. You only have to watch the Transport Select Committee or Transport Questions in the House to see that Ministers and the SoS are regularly barracked by MPs demanding better trains, services and stations but little happens! Update - the latest TfL Commissioners Report says that the Board is being strengthened in respect of "outside London" issues. See page 22. www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Part-1-Item05-Commissioners-Report-November-2012.pdf |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 18:32:15 GMT
GA side, the only stations with fast trains are Romford and Shenfield, and none of the fast services will be transferring to TfL anyway. No problems our side!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2012 20:27:13 GMT
GA side, the only stations with fast trains are Romford and Shenfield, and none of the fast services will be transferring to TfL anyway. No problems our side! Hmmm, but wouldnt be hard to imagine lots of Gidea Park only services, missing Harold Wood and Brentwood, with Shenfield OK because of fast services. |
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Post by andypurk on Nov 1, 2012 22:21:04 GMT
GA side, the only stations with fast trains are Romford and Shenfield, and none of the fast services will be transferring to TfL anyway. No problems our side! Hmmm, but wouldnt be hard to imagine lots of Gidea Park only services, missing Harold Wood and Brentwood, with Shenfield OK because of fast services. You mean like those which run in the peaks already? When the frequency as far as Gidea Park doubles to 12 tph. This allows the services to be accelerated. During the peaks, I believe that it is still planned to run some services into Liverpool Street, calling at most stations west of Shenfield. However, it is unclear whether these will be operated by the future 'Greater Anglia' franchise or by Crossrail. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 11:28:24 GMT
I'd also be interested to know how this would operate. The weekday off-peak timetable for Crossrail of 12tph is more intensive than the current peak service serving Harold Wood and Brentwood (as, although there is a 2/10m peak service in the morning, it only applies for a short half-hour period, presumably because the trains serving this are from shenfield sidings rather than returning from an inbound journey).
As such, adding additional trains to the Crossrail timetable will be logistically difficult I expect - especially bearing in mind that during peak hours, trains from Shenfield omit Manor Park/Forest Gate/Maryland, and some trains from Gidea Park omit Seven Kings/Goodmayes.
I haven't heard anything about any semi-fast services operating under the crossrail banner.
Anyone have any insight on how this might work?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2012 12:49:32 GMT
Peak freq will be 12TPH to Liv St (High Level), 6TPH to Maidenhead and 6TPH to Heathrow. Not sure what terminus at the east end they will use, I know all of the trains to Central London will come from Shenfield, but not where the LST reversers will start unfortunately.
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Nov 6, 2012 15:04:51 GMT
Peak freq will be 12TPH to Liv St (High Level), 6TPH to Maidenhead and 6TPH to Heathrow. Not sure what terminus at the east end they will use, I know all of the trains to Central London will come from Shenfield, but not where the LST reversers will start unfortunately. Gidea Park is the answer to your last question. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 17:56:20 GMT
That's a shame, I was hoping at least some would come from Shenfield. Seems a waste of time building platform 6 if there won't be any more trains :/
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2012 16:06:37 GMT
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