London Overground is five

[snoggle]

London Overground celebrates its 5th birthday today.

TfL have put out the obligatory press release
www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/26188.aspx. I would say that, IME, the service is good and works well. It is a step change on from the worst days of Silverlink Metro and the growth in patronage is nothing short of amazing. I'm looking forward to the SLL service starting shortly and it will be interesting to see how people take to that new service.

Here's to a successful future and further development and investment in the Overground network.

[Deleted]

Would be better if the new ELL and SLL had conductors on them.-

[malcolmffc]

Why? What would they do (other than cause fares to be significantly higher), given 99% of people on board will be using Oyster?

[charleyfarley]

Was Health and Safety legislation - applicable to the operation of the railway - tweaked in any way to permit OPO to begin with? Although I do believe in TOC's and LU using their income sensibly, I have always believed that one person alone responsible for a train and a full load of passengers to be potentially dangerous.
A conductor/guard does far more than simply operate the doors. He/she checks along the platform at each stop to ensure nothing is caught in the doors. In addition he/she is there to assist in the evacuation of passengers from the train if necessary. I would also assume that a conductor/guard has adequate training to drive the train to the next station should the driver become incapacitated.

[peterc]

It is a step change on from the worst days of Silverlink Metro

And Silverlink Metro was a step change from the old NLL into Broad Street under BR. The line had "character" in those days but precious few passengers. IIRC it was the DMU shuttle from Camden Road to Stratford that Ken Livingstone sponsored that gave the line its first hint of recovery.

[snoggle]

Nov 12, 2012 15:14:31 GMT peterc said:

It is a step change on from the worst days of Silverlink Metro

And Silverlink Metro was a step change from the old NLL into Broad Street under BR. The line had "character" in those days but precious few passengers. IIRC it was the DMU shuttle from Camden Road to Stratford that Ken Livingstone sponsored that gave the line its first hint of recovery.

Well yes it was even worse in BR days but BR had to cut its cloth to fit and these lines inevitably came a long way down the list given the relatively low usage compared to the main suburban routes.

The GLC certainly began the process of knitting together the North London Line into what we have today by reopening through Hackney and then paying for electrification. The creation of the east west link, even with BR fares, started the growth in patronage. The problem with Silverlink was that they were lumbered with a "no growth" contract with the DfT and thus had no funding to bolster services to the extent needed. TfL did chuck some money at the GOBLIN to improve some peak and Sunday services. However the way Silverlink ran "Metro" services was in sharp contrast to their main line County route out of Euston. This seemed to be reasonably well regarded and reliable whereas Metro was renowned for delays, breakdowns and feeling very down at heel. Given this it is amazing that it was as unbelieveably busy as it was. The chronic peak overcrowding was something to behold and I only used it occasionally.

Now TfL have clearly spent an enormous sum of money to get rid of time expired trains and improve capacity and upgrade exhausted infrastructure. The bonus has been that, by and large, LOROL perform well in delivering the service. They do have generous timetables which help with timekeeping and recovery. It will be interesting to see if they receive an extension to the concession contract and retain it when it gets retendered.

[flippyff]

I noticed PIS at several stations were showing 'Happy 5th Birthday' messages. Very helpful when you want to see when you train is due.

[redbond]

Nov 12, 2012 15:06:40 GMT charleyfarley said:

A conductor/guard does far more than simply operate the doors. He/she checks along the platform at each stop to ensure nothing is caught in the doors. In addition he/she is there to assist in the evacuation of passengers from the train if necessary. I would also assume that a conductor/guard has adequate training to drive the train to the next station should the driver become incapacitated.

The drivers can see far better on the in cab DOO cameras than a guard can from the rear. They can see each carriage and also can see the cameras inside the train at the same time if there is something they are not sure about. Guards have no training or authority to drive the train, only on how to deal with emergency situations, driving the train to the next station is not one of them.

[rincew1nd]

Nov 12, 2012 15:06:40 GMT charleyfarley said:

W conductor/guard does far more than simply operate the doors. He/she checks along the platform at each stop to ensure nothing is caught in the doors. In addition he/she is there to assist in the evacuation of passengers from the train if necessary. I would also assume that a conductor/guard has adequate training to drive the train to the next station should the driver become incapacitated.

"The Guard is the man,
who sits in the van,
and rides at the back of the train.
The Driver up front,
thinks the Guard's a ****,
and the Guard thinks the Driver's the same!"

Guards/Senior Conductors/Train Managers do many things all focussed on the customer passenger, I'm pretty sure that nowadays they can't move trains though. If a driver is incapacitated they would be focussed on getting the emergency services to the train rather than the train to the emergency services.

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2012 20:16:31 GMT redbond said:

Nov 12, 2012 15:06:40 GMT charleyfarley said:

A conductor/guard does far more than simply operate the doors. He/she checks along the platform at each stop to ensure nothing is caught in the doors. In addition he/she is there to assist in the evacuation of passengers from the train if necessary. I would also assume that a conductor/guard has adequate training to drive the train to the next station should the driver become incapacitated.

The drivers can see far better on the in cab DOO cameras than a guard can from the rear. They can see each carriage and also can see the cameras inside the train at the same time if there is something they are not sure about. Guards have no training or authority to drive the train, only on how to deal with emergency situations, driving the train to the next station is not one of them.

It is quite obvious that you do not travel much on the NLL. For the most part Conductors do not sit in the back cab, they are inside the train often in the middle and get a far better view of the train then the driver ever could. If the Conductor is in the rear cab he would get the same view as the driver would and probabbly more as the Guard has to step out onto the platform whereas the driver has a 6'by 6' inch screen only. The Guard can also access the on train cctv if he/she is working from the back cab. If he she is in the train then they can also see what is going on inside all the time unlike the driver who when the train reaches 5 mph the cameras automatically switch off.

[redbond]

The biggest difference between Guard and DOO I have seen is at Canonbury. If an ELL and a NLL train pull in at the same time, the ELL leaves first. DOO is just a time saver. With the ELL increasing to 16tph Dalston to Surrey Quays, having a guard would increase dwell times. I guess it all comes down to an extra layer of safety or saving time?

[Deleted]

Nov 13, 2012 23:41:14 GMT redbond said:

The biggest difference between Guard and DOO I have seen is at Canonbury. If an ELL and a NLL train pull in at the same time, the ELL leaves first. DOO is just a time saver. With the ELL increasing to 16tph Dalston to Surrey Quays, having a guard would increase dwell times. I guess it all comes down to an extra layer of safety or saving time?

Mind you the NLL train is usually busier than the ELL train at that point

[Chris M]

And the ELL towards Highbury is not unlikely to have particularly generous timings and/or stand time booked at Canonbury.

[superteacher]

Happy 5th birthday LO! Yes, a service that has been truly transformed, to the point that the NLL nowadays is barely recognisable than it was even 5 years ago.

I think the service could be speeded up though - the dwell times are annoying in many cases.

[mcmaddog]

Roll on 5 cars! Passengers were left behind on my train this morning at every station from Brockley to Surrey Quays this morning. A deserved victim of its own success.

[bicbasher]

A well deserved Happy Birthday to LO. We're at a point where it has become a victim of it's own success, yet still particularly during late evenings and Sundays still resembs a NR service than part of TfL.

We still have the ridiculous situation where on Sunday evenings, the last train from Camden Road to Stratford is just after 10pm, the ELL has no through service to Forest Hill/Sydenham after 2356 from Canada Water on weeknights which leaves Southern providing the final train to destinations south of NXG.

Yet we should congratulate the improved look to trains and stations and the new extension to Clapham Junction next month which finally sees the LO goal achieved of an orbital railway.

[su31]

The guards were apparently told they'd be in trouble if they did only work from the rear cab. They still seem to a lot of the time...

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2012 18:00:40 GMT su31 said:

The guards were apparently told they'd be in trouble if they did only work from the rear cab. They still seem to a lot of the time...

Its understandable in the peaks or when its busy, but I often see the conductor out of his cab when its quiet.

[Deleted]

Bronzeonion is quite correct, he has seen me working class 378s from inside the train.

SU31 the guards if they were caught have to give a valid reason as to why they are working from the back cab. The agreement does not state that you must only work from within the train, circumstances could arise where the Guard can only work from the rear cab again as Bronzeonion has alluded to already the peak periods are often so busy that passengers cant board the service.
It could be that you only go a couple of stops and during that time the Guard may well be in the back cab, i often carry a hot drink onto the train yet i am not allowed to drink this infront of the passengers, so after say 5,6 maybe 7 stations i will walk into the back cab to drink and then after say 3 or stations will go back into the train. At certain stations the Guard has to be in the train to give dispatch duties correctly.

[Deleted]

The coolest bit about the Overground that I've seen was high-viz fleeces. Remember a while back seeing a couple of Overground workers with them (obviously Overground workers because they were branded that way). So impressed was I that I mentioned it at a safety moment at work hoping my company would spring for a few.

Has the effect on surrounding transport, eg roads, buses, other trains, been documented?

[Deleted]

That brings me to one thing I dont like. LO conductors are required to wear a high vis vest when in the saloon now, it ruins an otherwise smart uniform to be honest. Same goes with the rest of the rail 'network' NR or LU high vis is over used!