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Post by arun on Sept 11, 2013 22:06:21 GMT
In the late '50s, 14 Q23 DM were converted to trailers to replace a number of Q38 trailers that had been converted to DMs. There are very few pictures of these trailers around it seems, one in the 1962 Ian Allan and LURS has a couple of distant shots. Does anyone know what mods were made to these trailers? As far as I can tell, the drivers front windows were retained, most of the underframe equipment less a transverse air cylinder was removed but I don't know whether the headlamps were removed or what happened to the driver's and/or guard's bulkhead. The door handles were certainly removed from the single side doors but I don't recall whether extra seats were installed.
Any information would be gratefully received - The aim of course is to produce a 3car Q23 unit of DM-T-DM in 0gauge using the soon to be released Radley Models Q23 DMs.
Many Thanks in anticipation.
Arun |
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Post by metroland on Sept 15, 2013 8:27:58 GMT
I seem to recall extra seats being installed but as it's over half a century ago I didn't take proper notes then! Afraid I can't help with the untidy bits underneath.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Sept 15, 2013 10:24:30 GMT
Weren't there little "compartments" of a few seats (four?) installed where the old cabs were?
Or am I mixing them up with another stock? As Metroland says,it was a long time ago......
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 15, 2013 13:56:47 GMT
IIRC they originally had a cab at both ends. At some time one cab only was removed, the doors were sealed and four seats were installed. This probably took place when they were converted to 'Q' stock.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 15, 2013 14:05:58 GMT
Weren't there little "compartments" of a few seats (four?) installed where the old cabs were? Or am I mixing them up with another stock? As Metroland says,it was a long time ago...... That was certainly done on standard tube stock ex-control trailers. Sorry I don't know whether the same was done on the Q23 cars IIRC they originally had a cab at both ends. At some time one cab only was removed, the doors were sealed and four seats were installed. This probably took place when they were converted to 'Q' stock. I don't think they did - the only double ended cars were the two converted for use on the South Acton shuttle - these were not converted to Q spec and so were known as "G23" instead of "Q23" . I don't think they were ever converted back again to single-enders. |
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 15, 2013 17:09:10 GMT
Weren't there little "compartments" of a few seats (four?) installed where the old cabs were? Or am I mixing them up with another stock? As Metroland says,it was a long time ago...... That was certainly done on standard tube stock ex-control trailers. Sorry I don't know whether the same was done on the Q23 cars IIRC they originally had a cab at both ends. At some time one cab only was removed, the doors were sealed and four seats were installed. This probably took place when they were converted to 'Q' stock. I don't think they did - the only double ended cars were the two converted for use on the South Acton shuttle - these were not converted to Q spec and so were known as "G23" instead of "Q23" . I don't think they were ever converted back again to single-enders. Now I remember. As originally built they had a cab at both ends but one cab was not fitted out as such with the idea that it could be so fitted as such at a later date, the 'redundant' cab was fitted out as described. As it turned out as you stated the only ones fitted out with dual cabs were the two used on the Acton Shuttle. |
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Post by arun on Sept 16, 2013 10:08:13 GMT
Guys, Thank you all for your ideas - though it makes me feel a little old as I remember travelling on the central line demobbed-CTs as a primary school child! - Yes, they did have those four seats in the opened up drivers cab area. As far as the Q23DM conversions go, I think the way to do this is going to be to build it and then watch as people come out of the woodwork and say, "You've got that all wrong!"
Arun
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 16, 2013 11:59:15 GMT
There was a series of articles in the Underground News a few years ago on the history of the District stock. That should give all the correct information.
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,400
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Post by metman on Sept 16, 2013 18:15:02 GMT
Hello from Brazil! I have a photo of a pair of Q23 trailers about to go for scrap. Sadly it does´t show the ends but I think very little was done to these cars as they were not expected to last much longer. The cab remained locked with the driving equipment removed. I expect the former guards area remained open with the pannel removed. There wouldn´t have been room for passenger seats alothugh the guards tip up seat may have remained.
The G stock did have windows at the trailing end when built but previous stock also did B-F stock. The end windows were plated over for the guards pannel (they were on the F stock) perhaps so they may have remained the same on the converted Q23 trailers.
Hope that helps.
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Post by arun on Sept 16, 2013 19:09:45 GMT
Thank you Metman - I suspect that's about as close to getting this sorted as I'm likely to get. I've got a couple of pics from Brian Hardy which show virtually everything removed from the underside except for one single air tank [as opposed to the double air tank] and they do suggest that the drivers rear bulkhead stayed in place. As you say, there would have been little point removing the headlamp fittings etc as the vehicles would have had little real life left. I seem to remember that the Central Line CTs also kept their headlamps even though their lives were expected to be rather longer.
Arun
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