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Post by domh245 on Apr 7, 2015 22:09:21 GMT
The powered vehicles only have motors on one of the two bogies on that carriage. On a 4-car it is 3 out of 8 (37.5%) bogies powered and on a 5-car it is 4 out of 10 (40%) powered. Something that also applies to the original Class 458 4-car versions (the rebuilt 5-car versions just gain an unpowered vehicle). Whether you count cars or bogies, the proportion that are powered is greater in a five-car 378 than in a four-car. Conversely, the 458s are going from 3/4 cars powered to 3/5. (or, in terms of bogies, 3/8 to 3/10) Unlike the 378s. this is a reduction in the power to weight ratio. (The refurbished units have a lower maximum speed if Wikipedia is to be believed: presumably the Windsor lines cannot use the 100mph capability the units had as built, which was useful on the main line services (Alton etc) they were first built for) The 458/5s have been regeared to provide 75mph top speed. This is partly because they couldn't stretch their legs on the windsor lines, and also because it gives them better acceleration.
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Post by redbond on Apr 8, 2015 1:27:03 GMT
There are three motors per MOS on a 378. One fully powered bogie with 2 motors, the other semi-powered with 1 motor.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 8, 2015 6:08:14 GMT
There are three motors per MOS on a 378. One fully powered bogie with 2 motors, the other semi-powered with 1 motor. All right - so we are going from 9/16 powered axles to 12/20 (56.25% to 60%) . Whichever way you cut it, it's 33% extra power but only 25% extra weight
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 7:03:22 GMT
I've been informed that 5 car ELL units have been deliberately slowed down to reduce incidents rates - the highest in the country.
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Post by redbond on Apr 8, 2015 11:25:58 GMT
Absolute nonsense on both accounts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 16:03:26 GMT
I've been informed that 5 car ELL units have been deliberately slowed down to reduce incidents rates - the highest in the country. I'm disappointed that you bought that one. If anything it has made it more difficult to make up time when safe to do so which inevitably impacts on PPM - not something the company wants. As you are aware the incident rates really have very little to do with speed. We are talking about a slight, though noticeable reduction in power under acceleration. Braking is, if anything, more effective. As you will know, incidents on the ELL side relate more to the short signal sections, short platforms, gradient platforms and intensity of the work (do many (any?!) other drivers work in the region of 140 station stops a day?). Acceleration has nothing to do with any of these. There were a couple of speed reductions introduced in the vicinity of Silwood Junction due to a multispad signal being at the bottom of a gradient round a curve, but again 4 car or 5 car makes not a jot of difference to the speed that is attainable in any 'hotspot' areas.
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Post by philthetube on Apr 8, 2015 19:48:41 GMT
Circle line drivers used to do a max of 6 circles, 156 stations, I suspect on an 8 hour shift district numbers will be higher, northern used to be before ato
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 13:13:39 GMT
Circle line drivers used to do a max of 6 circles, 156 stations, I suspect on an 8 hour shift district numbers will be higher, northern used to be before ato I'm sure you are right. I was really referring to comparisons to other TOC's that run services on NR metals rather than Underground services.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 13:40:09 GMT
Why should there be any need differentiate between a TOC and underground services in this case ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 17:51:20 GMT
Why should there be any need differentiate between a TOC and underground services in this case ? Because your original comment was about incident rates and I felt that comparisons are best made between between drivers that follow the same rulebook and, to a certain extent, are expected to adhere to a certain style of driving, whether it be approaching TPWS loops or whatever. Perhaps you could say a little bit more about your original assertion and the basis on which it was made? Otherwise it seems fairly derogatory even if that was not the intention - especially since the loss of acceleration on the 378's came as a surprise to most in the company, including driver managers. I think someone would have let the cat out of the bag had the units been deliberately restricted somehow. There has been no mention of that whatsoever and my points stand that the reduced acceleration has no bearing whatsoever on the type of incidents that do occur. As you well know the numbers of signals faced in a day, short signal sections and large numbers of station stops with short platforms and drivers undertaking DOO despatch duties 140 times a day significantly increase risk factors. I don't know how incident comparisons work between NR and Underground so it would be unwise of me to introduce that. I can only comment that as a passenger on Underground services their drivestyle regarding braking into platforms etc is very different to that I experience elsewhere by and large. That is not a criticism, they are different beasts and I dare say that lots of different factors come into play.
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Post by wimblephil on Apr 14, 2015 17:52:19 GMT
Some poor station staff at West Brompton just been shouted at by a passenger; "why are the train's stopping so far down the f***ing platform", "because there'll soon be 5 cars for this service", "well why don't they wait until there is, it's bloody stupid..."
Must be fun...! :S
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Post by domh245 on Apr 14, 2015 19:00:55 GMT
Some poor station staff at West Brompton just been shouted at by a passenger; "why are the train's stopping so far down the f***ing platform", "because there'll soon be 5 cars for this service", "well why don't they wait until there is, it's bloody stupid..." Must be fun...! :S You just can't win with some people. I don't see why they need to swear for having to walk all of, at most, 20m (twice if you are switched on and notice the change)
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 16, 2015 18:18:03 GMT
Tuesday 21st is the day penciled in for the introduction of the first two 5 cars for passenger service.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 18:35:27 GMT
Why should there be any need differentiate between a TOC and underground services in this case ? Because your original comment was about incident rates and I felt that comparisons are best made between between drivers that follow the same rulebook and, to a certain extent, are expected to adhere to a certain style of driving, whether it be approaching TPWS loops or whatever. Perhaps you could say a little bit more about your original assertion and the basis on which it was made? Otherwise it seems fairly derogatory even if that was not the intention - especially since the loss of acceleration on the 378's came as a surprise to most in the company, including driver managers. I think someone would have let the cat out of the bag had the units been deliberately restricted somehow. There has been no mention of that whatsoever and my points stand that the reduced acceleration has no bearing whatsoever on the type of incidents that do occur. As you well know the numbers of signals faced in a day, short signal sections and large numbers of station stops with short platforms and drivers undertaking DOO despatch duties 140 times a day significantly increase risk factors. I don't know how incident comparisons work between NR and Underground so it would be unwise of me to introduce that. I can only comment that as a passenger on Underground services their drivestyle regarding braking into platforms etc is very different to that I experience elsewhere by and large. That is not a criticism, they are different beasts and I dare say that lots of different factors come into play. My comments come from conversations with other drivers. You represent the cream of the crop when it comes to Lorol drivers - but not everyone conforms to those high standards. You might find it interesting that one bit of advice given to me by an experienced driver instructor was to only use notch 3 maximum in the east London line section.
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Post by dazz285 on Apr 20, 2015 13:05:24 GMT
More info on the first 5 car in service for tomorrow.. Fingers crossed it will be the 06.12 from Camden Road to Stratford arriving at 06.31. 06.35 Stratford to Clapham 07.40 07.45 Clapham to Stratford 08.47 08.57 Stratford to Richmond 09.56 If any one wants any more times then PM me. Like I say fingers crossed....
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 21, 2015 18:46:40 GMT
Now testing is complete there is a new thread here where the introduction to squadron service can be discussed.
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