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Post by spsmiler on May 10, 2015 19:24:27 GMT
Of course it is because of engineering works, but today Circle Line trains were going "Loop de Loop" by which I mean travelling the full circle, including Baker Street to High Street Kensington direct whilst Hammersmith & City Line trains were running between Hammersmith and Aldgate, as they did (for a while) in the 1870's.
When I set out from home this morning I was wondering whether the Hammersmith and City service would actually be withdrawn and instead either the Circle Line or the District Line trains that terminate at Edgware Road would be extended to Aldgate.
Simon
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Post by Chris M on May 10, 2015 22:08:59 GMT
District line drivers are not road trained between Edgware Road and Minories via Kings Cross, so that would be a very unusual service and require lots of coordination to swap drivers at Edgware Road for not a lot of benefit.
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Post by spsmiler on May 12, 2015 0:42:12 GMT
District line drivers are not road trained between Edgware Road and Minories via Kings Cross, so that would be a very unusual service and require lots of coordination to swap drivers at Edgware Road for not a lot of benefit. They used to be (at least, some of them) because some years ago District Line trains from Putney Bridge used to be extended to Aldgate (primarily at bank holidays) and also there was a time when some Circle Line trains were operated by District Line crews. Simon
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 1:10:24 GMT
I think it's been quite a while since District line trains have been extended over the northern part of the Circle line and since District line crews did Circles. The various line identities of the SSR does occasionally create tricky naming situations. It wasn't long ago that trains were running Barking to Edgware Road via the southern Circle, as some trains do in the early morning as well, which caused some naming problems. In this case, I would've thought it'd be clearer to label the Hammersmith - Aldgate trains 'Circle line to Aldgate/Hammersmith' and label the trains going round and round the traditional Circle the way the Circle line trains always used to be labelled. But, I guess, with the Circle and H&C lines labelled as separate lines - even though they aren't really - it could give people the impression that there would be fewer trains than there actually would be (since there'd be "no service" on the "Hammersmith & City line")?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 12, 2015 9:38:20 GMT
I think it's been quite a while since District line trains have been extended over the northern part of the Circle line and since District line crews did Circles. According to CULG the District extension to Aldgate ran until the early sixties on Bank Holiday weekends, and on Saturdays until 1972. It seems that the Met ran all weekday Circle services from 1926 (which is earlier than I would have expected)
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Post by spsmiler on May 12, 2015 17:42:31 GMT
I recall seeing Putney Bridge trains at Farringdon on the day of the Papal visit. I think this was in 1982. Somewhere I have a photograph of this.
In 1926 *Inner Circle services were reduced in frequency and to compensate the Putney Bridge - High St. Kensington District Railway trains were extended to Edgware Road. This explains why this service exists! Doing this was (probably) relatively painless because Edgware Road station had recently been rebuilt with four platforms prior to the building of new deep level tube tunnels towards the Met Main Line in the Kilburn area. This latter plan floundered because the Metropolitan Railway wanted to run locomotive hauled trains with compartment style passenger carriages through the tunnels but new safety rules required that at times of emergency passengers must be able to walk through the train, this being something that was obviously not possible with compartment type rolling stock. In the end congestion on the twin track section of line between Baker Street and Finchley road was relieved in a different way.
*In those days the Middle Circle service still operated, albeit no longer the full Aldgate - Moorgate - Latimer Road - Addison Road - Earls Court - Mansion House route.
Simon
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Post by towerman on May 15, 2015 12:12:55 GMT
Can still remember the Putney Bridge-Moorgate service on bank holidays,ran up till the mid 70s.
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Post by roythebus on May 17, 2015 0:26:38 GMT
The DR crews at Parsons Green ran Circles on Sundays and Wimbledon/Putney Bridge-Moorgate on Saturdays until the 7-car regime began in mid 1971 if I remember correctly. They carried on with Sunday circles long after the Saturday Moorgates/Liverpool Street were withdrawn. There was a separate thread on this a while ago where I posted the set workings.
AFAIK no other DR crews done Circles, and none signed Liverpool Street-Aldgate East.
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Post by programmes1 on May 17, 2015 7:22:35 GMT
My notes show 2 Circles each direction were worked by PG crews with crew c/o at Gloucester Road. The week end services ran through to Aldgate as well and there were normally TD issues at Edgware Road EB/OR which were corrected before departure.
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Post by shunterl44 on May 26, 2015 14:42:33 GMT
On a similar theme - last Wednesday (20th May 2015) something odd happened on an outer-rail circle line train. I boarded at Sloane Square about 15:15 to go to Paddington (final destination - Edgware Road) but when the train arrived at Bayswater there was an automated message stating that the destination of the train had been changed and it was now Aldgate - to be greeted by laughter from my fellow passengers. The driver then came on the Tanoy to confirm this.
Is this a common occurrence?
David
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Post by superteacher on May 26, 2015 19:54:08 GMT
On a similar theme - last Wednesday (20th May 2015) something odd happened on an outer-rail circle line train. I boarded at Sloane Square about 15:15 to go to Paddington (final destination - Edgware Road) but when the train arrived at Bayswater there was an automated message stating that the destination of the train had been changed and it was now Aldgate - to be greeted by laughter from my fellow passengers. The driver then came on the Tanoy to confirm this.
Is this a common occurrence?
David It happens from time to time when trains are out of position due to service disruptions.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 19:58:34 GMT
I wonder if it was actually turned at Aldgate, or whether Aldgate was put up as a temporary destination, but the train carried on round to do a full Circle, with the destination being changed to the standard later on. Both are possible I think. It'd be, perhaps, a little less confusing that way, with all of the maps and announcements proclaiming the cessation of the full Circle service - which, of course, is generally the case.
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Post by rsdworker on May 26, 2015 20:19:39 GMT
maybe TFL should ought to install dynamic maps which is commonly used in some metros to avoid confusion - (NYC and WMATA* has those) *only on neweer rail cars so if route suddenly changes so the driver can change maps instantly example district train arrives at tower hill but changes to circle train due service disruption/enginerring work etc then line maps inside train changes automatically along with PA and visual message system changes to relfect that train is going to different station or change in go around the circle
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Post by superteacher on May 26, 2015 20:49:54 GMT
I wonder if it was actually turned at Aldgate, or whether Aldgate was put up as a temporary destination, but the train carried on round to do a full Circle, with the destination being changed to the standard later on. Both are possible I think. It'd be, perhaps, a little less confusing that way, with all of the maps and announcements proclaiming the cessation of the full Circle service - which, of course, is generally the case. I'd be surprised if Aldgate was the final destination. As the Met uses the middle two platforms there, the only way to reverse is via the outer rail platform, which is a bit of a pain. Moorgate would be a better choice. However, like tut, I think the train simply got reformed into an outer rail circle. Related to the above, I decided to take T172 today, which enters service from Ealing Common depot, runs to Edgware Road and then becomes an outer rail circle. It was described as a District line train to Edgware Road all the way to Edgware Road, where it changed. I wondered if S stock had a code that could do it all automatically?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 20:58:34 GMT
I'd be surprised if Aldgate was the final destination. As the Met uses the middle two platforms there, the only way to reverse is via the outer rail platform, which is a bit of a pain. Moorgate would be a better choice. However, like tut, I think the train simply got reformed into an outer rail circle. It's a fair point and, obviously, we are in general agreement, but it's not necessarily so. Reversing off the outer rail platform is a pain, but since Circles are 10 minutes apart, are they not, you may not have to worry about delaying a following train as much as you might have to elsewhere. It's more a case of slotting the train in amongst the other departures - which mightn't be too much trouble if an inner rail train's gone missing because of all the disruption anyway. Alternatively, it may be possible to find a space in the Metropolitan line platforms, especially if the disruptions have affected the Met too and led to one of them being turned at, say, Moorgate or Baker. It would all depend.
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Post by superteacher on May 26, 2015 21:07:47 GMT
I'd be surprised if Aldgate was the final destination. As the Met uses the middle two platforms there, the only way to reverse is via the outer rail platform, which is a bit of a pain. Moorgate would be a better choice. However, like tut, I think the train simply got reformed into an outer rail circle. It's a fair point and, obviously, we are in general agreement, but it's not necessarily so. Reversing off the outer rail platform is a pain, but since Circles are 10 minutes apart, are they not, you may not have to worry about delaying a following train as much as you might have to elsewhere. It's more a case of slotting the train in amongst the other departures - which mightn't be too much trouble if an inner rail train's gone missing because of all the disruption anyway. Alternatively, it may be possible to find a space in the Metropolitan line platforms, especially if the disruptions have affected the Met too and led to one of them being turned at, say, Moorgate or Baker. It would all depend. Fair enough, but a Circle reversing at Aldgate would not be in the correct timetable path, so it's unlikely that the following Circle will be 10 mins behind; it could be right behind.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 26, 2015 21:10:10 GMT
I wondered if S stock had a code that could do it all automatically? Sadly at the moment no. I did T172 in the reverse direction from Edgware Rd-Ealing Common depot at 1047, the train arrived at pfm.4 with 'Circle line to Hammersmith' on the train, 'Not in service' on the platform displays. At stations from Paddington-High Street Ken, the platform displays showed 'Acton Town' although the train now correctly showed 'Ealing Broadway'.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 21:14:52 GMT
It's a fair point and, obviously, we are in general agreement, but it's not necessarily so. Reversing off the outer rail platform is a pain, but since Circles are 10 minutes apart, are they not, you may not have to worry about delaying a following train as much as you might have to elsewhere. It's more a case of slotting the train in amongst the other departures - which mightn't be too much trouble if an inner rail train's gone missing because of all the disruption anyway. Alternatively, it may be possible to find a space in the Metropolitan line platforms, especially if the disruptions have affected the Met too and led to one of them being turned at, say, Moorgate or Baker. It would all depend. Fair enough, but a Circle reversing at Aldgate would not be in the correct timetable path, so it's unlikely that the following Circle will be 10 mins behind; it could be right behind. Good point that. Or it could be twenty minutes behind - although that'd be all the more reason to have it continue on round. Mind you, it would depend on what was causing the delays, if it was a track circuit failure where the bay road at Tower Hill joins the mainline ... probably not such a good idea to extend It all depends, it all depends Edit: (It'd also depend on when the one on the handle was due to get off, too)
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Post by superteacher on May 26, 2015 21:23:11 GMT
Sometimes Whitechapel was used to reverse and reform Circles, although with the change of layout there, it's no longer convenient.
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Post by superteacher on May 26, 2015 21:28:17 GMT
I wondered if S stock had a code that could do it all automatically? Sadly at the moment no. I did T172 in the reverse direction from Edgware Rd-Ealing Common depot at 1047, the train arrived at pfm.4 with 'Circle line to Hammersmith' on the train, 'Not in service' on the platform displays. At stations from Paddington-High Street Ken, the platform displays showed 'Acton Town' although the train now correctly showed 'Ealing Broadway'. Highly confusing! Do you have a list of S stock destination codes by any chance?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 21:40:45 GMT
Last I heard, that's a long list. One list to rule them all, one list to find them, one list to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. In the Land of Broadway (for now) where the Shadows lie.
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Post by superteacher on May 26, 2015 21:44:13 GMT
Last I heard, that's a long list. One list to rule them all, one list to find them, one list to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. In the Land of Broadway (for now) where the Shadows lie. FOI request maybe? They must have loads of spare time now that us lot aren't bugging them for WTT's! ?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 27, 2015 11:45:22 GMT
Do you have a list of S stock destination codes by any chance? PM sent.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 14:31:21 GMT
District line drivers are not road trained between Edgware Road and Minories via Kings Cross, so that would be a very unusual service and require lots of coordination to swap drivers at Edgware Road for not a lot of benefit. They used to be (at least, some of them) because some years ago District Line trains from Putney Bridge used to be extended to Aldgate (primarily at bank holidays) and also there was a time when some Circle Line trains were operated by District Line crews. Simon From the District point of view, I have a hazy recollection of working a football special as a PG Guard, to some point on the outer rail possibly Euston or KX/St Pancras , IIRC working DT.PG to Fulham Bdwy then working to the north side of the outer rail running stick to stick following other traffic while some rather rowdy 80's fans made their presence known on the other side of the J door, I just cant remember where I breathed a sigh of relief as they de-trained along with their police escort - this was the 80's and British football fans had a reputation which sadly they often lived down to. I'm sure someone told me when I moved to PG and did my road training over the circle that one reason we did Sundays on the circle occasionally was to be road trained for football working for fans of teams from the north of England traveling to Chelsea and Wimbledon. That may have been wrong, but thats what I was told at the time.
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Post by danwoodhouse on Aug 19, 2015 20:31:03 GMT
Of course it is because of engineering works, but today Circle Line trains were going "Loop de Loop" by which I mean travelling the full circle, including Baker Street to High Street Kensington direct whilst Hammersmith & City Line trains were running between Hammersmith and Aldgate, as they did (for a while) in the 1870's. When I set out from home this morning I was wondering whether the Hammersmith and City service would actually be withdrawn and instead either the Circle Line or the District Line trains that terminate at Edgware Road would be extended to Aldgate. Simon H&C withdrawn?
hang on what would provide the service to Barking via King's Cross then?
mind you I had a similar idea once - circles and H&C run Hammersmith-Edgware Road only and the District runs like the Northern Line as in Upminster to Richmond/Olympia/Ealing Bdy/Wimbledon via Embankment or King's Cross.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 20, 2015 23:57:46 GMT
Of course it is because of engineering works, but today Circle Line trains were going "Loop de Loop" by which I mean travelling the full circle, including Baker Street to High Street Kensington direct whilst Hammersmith & City Line trains were running between Hammersmith and Aldgate, as they did (for a while) in the 1870's. When I set out from home this morning I was wondering whether the Hammersmith and City service would actually be withdrawn and instead either the Circle Line or the District Line trains that terminate at Edgware Road would be extended to Aldgate. Simon H&C withdrawn?
hang on what would provide the service to Barking via King's Cross then?
mind you I had a similar idea once - circles and H&C run Hammersmith-Edgware Road only and the District runs like the Northern Line as in Upminster to Richmond/Olympia/Ealing Bdy/Wimbledon via Embankment or King's Cross.
This message referred to a weekend day when engineering work closed part of the railway... not normal daily services. Simon
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