Thatsa lot!!

[q8]

In NYC, a new train operator can literally work 17 different lines within 17 days, work 10 different types of equipment, and is eligible to report anywhere on the system.
This would be the LU equivalent of having to start work in a 5 day week at Epping, New Cross, Amersham, Heathrow & Morden.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now THAT'S what I call multifunction

[zman]

Yeah, when you're a new motorman or guard (we still have those...for now), it's rough being on the "Extra Extra List" which means that you do not have enough seniority to pick a job. The Crew Office actually assigns you a tour and days off to work for the pick which lasts six months on average. Sometimes you'll get lucky in receiving the tour that you chose on your "wish list". Other times...whoa Nellie. You see, with us the scheduling is different. The New York Subway has a 24 hour railroad and has jobs starting at all times throughout the day. So when you're assigned a tour such as midnights (aka graveyard shift), then you will work nothing but overnights for the duration of the pick. Some people swear by working nights. Other people swear at them (including yours truly).

There's not only having to know all of the different types of equipment and their quirks, but there's also having to know all of the lines in the system, with almost all of the lines sharing track with other lines. So knowing your sticks is crucial. It's kinda like working the District Line for one day and having to take the proper stick to go to Ealing Bway and then the very next day working the Picc going to Rayners Lane and having to take the opposite stick. Heck, some jobs have you working two different lines in the same day! And with some lines, in a particular day, you could be looking at maybe 40 spots where the sticks can be different (kiddies, you need your sleep for this job.)

And being on the "extra board" (aka spare). Oh boy. This is where you, depending on your way of thinking, can get super rich or super screwed. You could be sitting on the board for four hours at one location (like Upminster) and they give you an assignment on the other side of town to work (like Harrow & Wealdstone). And you've gotta work the whole thing. Pay wise, it's pretty as the time you've sat on the board is now paid to you at 1½X. And when you finish your job, they pay you a deadhead bonus which is equivalent to the travelling time it would take between the point you originally started and the point you finished, also paid at 1½X. And our road and switching (shifting) jobs can work for a minimum of 8 hours pay to a maximum scheduled pay of 10:59 (and sometimes more depending if you get OT on top of it). So you could literally leave your home at 10 am (to be at work at 11 am) to go to work and be back home after everything above is done at 1 or 2 am. Makes for a big check (most I've ever earned in one day without holiday bonuses was 21 hours pay), but also for a tired body.

An extra extra motorman currently has to stay in that function for about four years (guards about three) until he can actually pick a job. And when you finally do pick, the choices are usually horrible. Many times, there will be nothing left but PM's (lates) and nights. Your choice of days off for the next six months will be either Tuesday & Wednesday or Wednesday & Thursday (great for maintaining personal relationships). The jobs available could be a mixture of a couple days close to home and a couple on the other end (if you're unlucky, ALL will be on the other end...hope you have a car). You'd be looking at mostly workhorse jobs and OPTO (OTO plus a "P" for Person). Sometimes OPTO workhorses (we have to stand at every stop, make manual announcements, and look out the window for OPTO).

But there's light at the end of the tunnel. Opportunities come up where you can choose 'Work Trains' (diesels for maintenance work), you can choose 'vacation relief' where Train Operators (T/O's) on the VR list bid on jobs vacated each week by other T/O's go on vacation. Whatever days off and run the regular T/O has, the VR man gets for that particular week. This way a T/O can touch weekends off here and there and work a shift that he/she prefers. You can pick to switch (shift). You can work the car wash, track test cars, work the main shop (with cars that are in super bad shape), work the money train or the garbage train (which pick up...yes...money & garbage), or you can work the extra list which gives you different jobs but generally closer to home. And eventually, you'll be able to pick a job on the shift you want with the days you want. But it takes time. To pick Sat & Sun off as a T/O takes 9 years seniority for the PM tour, 15 years for the AM tour and about 17 for the nights (go figure that one out). To pick weekends off whilst switching, add on about 4 years to each figure above.

Oh and don't forget about picking your personal vacations. In the beginning, your vacation for the year will come in either January, February and maybe March (you'll choose whatever weeks are open). Once again though, as your seniority gets better, so do your choices. I currently have 8 years seniority as a T/O and for 2006, hopefully for the very first time, I'll be able to take off the first two weeks in June. I'll be able to pick Christmas week off when I have about 19 years time.

So that's our gig in a nutshell. What do you think?

[q8]

Gawd in Heaven, and our boys complain of the "modern methods" I think MTA could learn a bit or two about rosterring from LUL

[Dmitri]

zman said:

OPTO (OTO plus a "P" for Person).

Hmmm... what is OTO?

So that's our gig in a nutshell. What do you think?

Horrible...

[zman]

You're probably right Q8, but I doubt that will ever happen.

Could you imagine the outrage from a senior T/O with 30 years in title who has been working a single line from 7 am to 5 pm with all Saturdays, Sundays & Holidays off for almost 11 hours pay a day (which equals about $76,000 a year without additional overtime) ... and now you tell him that he now has to change shifts, change days off and work a different job every day? Don't think that he would particularly care for that. Probably would put his retirement papers in right then and there (which would be great for me 'cause then I move up one notch).

A New York T/O can make a nice salary if he/she decides to work for it. There are a few T/O's here that make $100,000 a year and the seniority make-up has a lot to do with it.

BTW Dmitri, OPTO is an acronym for One Person Train Operation. The actual acronym is OPO for LUL (sorry for the earlier error).

[q8]

Without personal critiscism I think that system stinks. It seems to smack of favouritism. At least in London no matter what the seniority everybody gets fair crack of the whip. I'm not too sure about this new "link" system they are using though. But I don't condemn it out-of-hand as I don't quite understand it.

[Deleted]

Z Man, thank you very much for that detailed description of how things are on that side of the pond! I love reading about how other Metro systems work etc, and I'm quite astonished at how the rostering system works there.

Am I correct in thinking that there are no Trade Unions on NY Metro now? If they tried to put that sort of system of work in on LUL, we'd be on permanent industrial action!

Q8, The new 'family friendly' rosters on trial at Acton Town and Earl's Court are still quite dependent on depot seniority, so all of the old hands were guaranteed to get whichever shift they wanted, and everyone else had to fill the spaces which were left.
Luckily for me, I wanted lates anyway! Just as well because there's about a 5 year waiting list for the early link!

[zman]

alanl said:

Am I correct in thinking that there are no Trade Unions on NY Metro now? If they tried to put that sort of system of work in on LUL, we'd be on permanent industrial action!

All of the passenger railroads/subways are unionized. We're members of Transport Workers Union Local 100.

Our rostering system has been like this since 1904 and has been fought for tooth and nail by our union. This is how it works: You take an exam to become a motorman and you are given a score. The TA then hires you and two of your classmates off of the exam list. Your seniority number then corresponds to your exam score. So say that District Dave gets a seniority number of 3427, Q8 becomes 3428 and Alan becomes 3429 since Dave got a higher test score than Q8, who got a better score than Alan. For the rest of your careers as motormen, your seniority number will always be in this order, even when the seniority number lists are updated every 5 years.

So when it comes time to finally pick jobs, Dave might want to work lates on the F line, Q8 might want to work overnights on the A and Alan might want early jobs on the N. There's usually something for everybody and it actually is quite fair. The only favoritism it shows are for the senior men which paid their dues and deserve what they get.

But it also works out very nicely for junior men with 5+ years in title I must say. After all, you might have two kids and your wife might work as well. As a junior man, you can pick a job starting at 4 am with Thursday/Friday off that clears at 12:30 or 1pm so that you can be home by 2 pm. That way, you're always assured of being able to pick up your children from day care (barring a serious service disruption.) Or you can pick a late trick that starts after 4 pm to cover the same function. Best part is that since your schedule is always the same for six months, you can make plans around your work way in advance. It gives stability.

Down sides are what I had mentioned earlier, and when you take a promotion. When you go to motorman from guard (we call them conductors) or from another title, your seniority starts at zero once again. Your prior time now only counts towards your pension which one receives after 25 years of service and 55 years of age. Even if you don't have the age (if you started say at 21 years of age), you can freeze your pension when you put the 25 years in and you'll then get it at 55.

We do have some good things going for us. And to be honest with you, if the LUL rostering system was implemented here, there would be a job action on our part!

Especially on my part! I gained this seniority by paying my dues. I worked nothing but lates with Wed/Thur off for my first 4½ years. Now, I work early jobs (starting between 4 and 7 am) year-round. I never ever have to worry about working nights or lates (unless I want to) and I'll have Saturday/Sunday off until October by working what's called in LUL parlance "Leave Cover". PLUS, and most important, I get to walk to work!

Dunno, maybe I'm selfish.

[Deleted]

Again, many thanks for the explanations! I suppose we're all just used to doing things our own ways, and 'other' ways seem strange! As long as you and your colleagues are happy, that's the main thing!

[q8]

Nah! You're not selfish zman. As Alan says each and every system has it's own working methods and practices and it's what the guys are used to. What seems sugar to one is salt to the other.

Now when you next come to our little island with the wife you must tell us as I am sure that a lot of the LUL men would want to meet you.

[Admin Team]

That's been fascinating stuff to read zman!

Personally I think I'll stick with our system, though I can understand that if you've started your working life knowing that that's the basis of what you're letting yourself in for then fair enough!

I noticed that you touched on Vacation time. Did I misread, or am I correct in interpretting this as meaning that you just get two weeks off each year? If that's the case that would NOT suit 'us' - we get four blocks a year of two weeks each, one winter leave block, one spring leave block, one summer leave block and one autumn leave block - I'll stick with those thanks!

One other thing also occurs to me: Both the Transport Commissioner for London (Bob Kylie) and our Managing Director (Tim O'Toole) are both Americans, and I've heard that both get frustrated by the lack of flexibility in many of 'our' working practices and I heard mention that Tim once (at least!) ranted over our 'God-damn draconian employment laws' and the way that (in his view) they're weighted in favour of employees!

One thing your posts highlighted though are the 'earning opportunities' that your system allows. We don't have those - we cannot work rest days or volunteer for longer or any additional duties; we simply abide by our rostered duties.

I believe that pre 'Company Plan' (which was introduced in the early 1990's) there were opportunities for overtime and certain shifts carried a 'premium' payment, but that was all before my time. Perhaps some of our longer serving staff can compare those?

[q8]

Well DD I can give you a brief description of working practices in the sixties and seventies. Firtsly ALL duties were no longer that 8 hours including meal relief and you were guaranteed 8 hours basic pay. Anytime worked in excess of 8 hours was paid at time and a quarter. Saturdays were paid time and a half and sundays time and two thirds until the so-called double time came in. Sundays were NEVER paid at double time although they tried to make you think so. The actual criterion was 8 hours plus TIME WORKED. This meant that if your sunday shift was only 6 hours long then you were paid 8 + 6 = 14. Between 22:00 and 06:00 you were paid time and a quarter except friday nights when the saturday portion was paid at time/half.

Now rest days. You got ONE rest day per week which COULD NOT be a sunday. Sundays were outside the rostered week and were always classed as O/T. However you got more or less every other sunday on which commenced your week of late turn. You COULD NOT under any circumstance work a rest day. So late turns were always fat weeks in the pay packet. You were paid on thursday at the depot counter and that was the day you paid your christmas club money too. So upstairs you took it in one hand and downstairs you paid some out to the club secretary with the other. You paid the rest out to the old woman or Mum when you got home. RDC turns always had a saturday rest day.

Annual leave was covered on all lines as now (A leave cover and so on) except the District which had it's own different arrangements. You got two weeks leave per year (paid) and compensatory leave according to the number of bank holidays you had worked the year previous. You could change leave periods if you wanted to but it had to be on a MCO basis. Comp leave was taken as given. Special leave could be arranged at short notice but was NOT paid. This was another thing where the board pulled a fast one. Annual leave was arranged so the the middle sunday was your sunday off. This emant that unless you had made special leave arrangements you did not commence your leave until the monday and you returned on a sunday. So you did not actually get a complete two weeks off.

On the District annual leave was covered by men from the "pool" I.E. men not yet on the main roster at the depot concerned. This was open to corruption as the blue eyed boys of the senior yardmaster got the pick of the best duties to be covered. There was also a sectional council agreement on the DR called "4019"

On all lines a duty could be covered by spares for up to 90 days before being classed as uncovered and someone from the pool put on to the main roster vice the man away on long-term sick. On the DR "4019" meant a duty was uncovered after THREE days. This was not popular with other lines but was doggedly retained and adhered to for years..

All this applied to train crews. Stn and other staff could work rest days and unplanned overtime and did so often as a matter of course. I am not too up-and-up on the agreements for non train staff however.

To add one last thing. Management/staff agreements were NOT universal. You had three dsiffent sections of agreements "LER" "Metropolitan" and "District" and while there was a lot of conformity between the three, some had agreements that the others did not.

I'm sure I've probably forgotten some things that others will remember and put right herein

[zman]

admin said:

That's been fascinating stuff to read zman!

Personally I think I'll stick with our system, though I can understand that if you've started your working life knowing that that's the basis of what you're letting yourself in for then fair enough!

I noticed that you touched on Vacation time. Did I misread, or am I correct in interpretting this as meaning that you just get two weeks off each year? If that's the case that would NOT suit 'us' - we get four blocks a year of two weeks each, one winter leave block, one spring leave block, one summer leave block and one autumn leave block - I'll stick with those thanks!

One other thing also occurs to me: Both the Transport Commissioner for London (Bob Kylie) and our Managing Director (Tim O'Toole) are both Americans, and I've heard that both get frustrated by the lack of flexibility in many of 'our' working practices and I heard mention that Tim once (at least!) ranted over our 'God-damn draconian employment laws' and the way that (in his view) they're weighted in favour of employees!

One thing your posts highlighted though are the 'earning opportunities' that your system allows. We don't have those - we cannot work rest days or volunteer for longer or any additional duties; we simply abide by our rostered duties.

I believe that pre 'Company Plan' (which was introduced in the early 1990's) there were opportunities for overtime and certain shifts carried a 'premium' payment, but that was all before my time. Perhaps some of our longer serving staff can compare those?

Vacations: Dave, bite your tongue! Two weeks? Heavens, no! I simply haven't had the seniority yet to be able to pick any week within the month of June PERIOD. But I'm hoping that this time is the charm.

It all depends on how much total time on the job that one has (not in title, but in everything lumped together.) One receives one day for each month worked during the first year, 2 weeks for 1-2 years service, 4 weeks for 3-14 years service and 5 weeks for 15+ years service. We also get 12 paid sick days a year which can be carried over to successive years, free medical/dental (though I must say the dental plan is total rubbish), and 11 paid holidays a year which we can either accrue as accumulated personal days or we can get 8 hours pay, in addition to our regular run pay, for each holiday. One works 40 hours a week with everything after 40 hours being paid at time-and-a-half. You can volunteer to work one day off per week which is fully paid at time-and-a-half. And you can work additional overtime per day...up to six hours additional at time-and-a-half.

Yeah, we can make big money, but to be honest with you, I'd MUCH rather have your 6½ hour days over there.

In regards to the Americans who head the LUL and TfL, from what I've seen over the past year or so, it seems to me that existing policies over here in New York are being implemented over there. I wouldn't be surprised if the NY and London people were working closely together in a joint effort. Sure seems it.

[Deleted]

zman said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the NY and London people were working closely together in a joint effort. Sure seems it.

I like that idea... I'll come and work with you in NY for a while, then you can come and work with me in London! I'll suggest that to our MD!