Good Service status

[superteacher]

A friend of mine who works for TFL has suggested that they have begun discussing the possibility of updating the service status messages. I stress that this is only a discussion at the moment!

[domh245]

Updating the service status messages or the criteria for service status? I can't really think of anything wrong with the service status messages as such (although maybe a recovering from XYZ delays could be handy) but they do often come under criticism for their rather bizarre classification of 20 minute gaps as good service and such like.

[peterc]

In my view there are four service levels that I want to know about.

1. As advertised
2. Not as good as usual, you might be late but not seriously so
3. You are going to be seriously late but will be even later if you try an alternative route
4. Totally ******, find a different route.

Now try and find polite and meanigful terms for them.

[superteacher]

Mar 28, 2016 14:36:36 GMT domh245 said:

Updating the service status messages or the criteria for service status? I can't really think of anything wrong with the service status messages as such (although maybe a recovering from XYZ delays could be handy) but they do often come under criticism for their rather bizarre classification of 20 minute gaps as good service and such like.

Well the criteria needs updating, definitely, but the info I heard was that the messages will become more local, and that the messages will relate to the average waiting time compared to the norm. I daresay there will still be messages akin to severe delays.

The Good Service message needs to go, and fast. I will judge what is or isn't good!

[Red Dragon]

PeterC, I like your system, but I thought I'd make a few additions (mine in blue):

1. As advertised Normal Service

2. Not as good as usual, you might be late but not seriously so Minor Delays (Residual delays if after previous incident)

2b. Moderate Delays - more severe than a few gaps in the service, trains may be moving slowly etc. allow more time to travel

3. You are going to be seriously late but will be even later if you try an alternative route Major Delays stuck at signals for long periods, but still moving. Large gaps in the service, etc. avoid if possible

4. Totally ******, find a different route. Severe Delays trains not really moving, service at a standstill but not officially suspended no reason to be on service unless you have loads of time on your hands  . 

Also, I think the closure terminology should be revised. Closed (or part closure) should mean that it is planned (planned engineering works or a standard shutdown like on the W&C) and Suspended (or part suspended) if it is sudden. The same terminology should be used in announcements etc.

[phoenixcronin]

I also think they should have some sort of service message for individual train delays/cancellations, but of course only on low frequency routes with perhaps 4tph or less e.g. most of the Overground, Met outer branches

[blackhorsesteve]

Mar 28, 2016 14:45:26 GMT peterc said:

In my view there are four service levels that I want to know about.

1. As advertised
2. Not as good as usual, you might be late but not seriously so
3. You are going to be seriously late but will be even later if you try an alternative route
4. Totally ******, find a different route.

Now try and find polite and meanigful terms for them.

I'd go with these to be fair.

[tjw]

Am I the only one that finds the "Normal Service" announcement amusing...

I also find the the "delays" or "severe delays" to not be very helpful... If you are running a 5min service how will the passengers ever notice the 'train' is 30 mins late?

When I worked a a Station Foreman if the trains were so late that they were effectively running in later scheduled paths, I would tell my staff not to announce that it was late. If a train departs at the time advertised passengers for that train will be happy, they will not care that that particular stock is say 1 hour late departing.

[Chris M]

There are really only two things a passenger cares about:
1) Will I have to wait longer than normal for a train?
2) Once I am on a train, will the journey take longer than normal?

If the answer to either of those is "yes" then they need to know whether to take an alternative route if possible.

The current messages conflate the two, which are not necessarily the same - particularly when the service was thinned out to reduce the impact of an earlier problem which has now been resolved. There will be extended intervals between trains, but the trains are running at normal speed.

[ducatisti]

Mar 28, 2016 14:45:26 GMT peterc said:

In my view there are four service levels that I want to know about.

1. As advertised
2. Not as good as usual, you might be late but not seriously so
3. You are going to be seriously late but will be even later if you try an alternative route
4. Totally ******, find a different route.

Now try and find polite and meanigful terms for them.

I agree with that. I think "Good Service" is just hanging out a "kick me" sign.
Better use of more local notices would be good.
Given the number of lines (especially when you add in DLR/LO etc), is it worth giving detailed notices for nearby lines and either "running as advertised" or "check for details"/"give up" for outlying/further away lines.

If they could do something about the number of automated announcements that would be good too...

I suggest (not too seriously) as follows:-
1. As advertised - cockney voice "s'orright"
2. Not as good as usual, you might be late but not seriously so "bit dodgy mate"
3. You are going to be seriously late but will be even later if you try an alternative route "fx: sucks teeth"
4. Totally ******, find a different route. "it's Donald ducked mate... *laughter*"

[will]

Mar 28, 2016 15:22:33 GMT Red Dragon said:

PeterC, I like your system, but I thought I'd make a few additions (mine in blue):

1. As advertised Normal Service

2. Not as good as usual, you might be late but not seriously so Minor Delays (Residual delays if after previous incident)

2b. Moderate Delays - more severe than a few gaps in the service, trains may be moving slowly etc. allow more time to travel

3. You are going to be seriously late but will be even later if you try an alternative route Major Delays stuck at signals for long periods, but still moving. Large gaps in the service, etc. avoid if possible

4. Totally ******, find a different route. Severe Delays trains not really moving, service at a standstill but not officially suspended no reason to be on service unless you have loads of time on your hands  . 

Also, I think the closure terminology should be revised. Closed (or part closure) should mean that it is planned (planned engineering works or a standard shutdown like on the W&C) and Suspended (or part suspended) if it is sudden. The same terminology should be used in announcements etc.

They really could do with a Moderate delay message as they do tend to say Minor delays when the delays are more serious but not quite bad enough to say Severe delays. Agree with the need for changes in terminology and they need to say Suspended during more serious delays as they only ever use the term for the Waterloo & City and Circle Lines with other lines only ever Part Suspended with Severe delays when few if any trains are running on a line.

[rapidtransitman]

The major problem I have is with the Overground Service Status - There are 7 different lines but none of them are readily identifiable as routes, and they circumnavigate central London. So a `Severe Delay` on Overground could be anywhere on this large network, not helping anyone out. The 7 lines need shorter, more easily identifiable names (ie East London, South London, DC, GOBLIN lines), and they need to be split out as a separate tab in the Status Update TfL page.

[Chris M]

Mar 29, 2016 14:48:34 GMT rapidtransitman said:

The major problem I have is with the Overground Service Status - There are 7 different lines but none of them are readily identifiable as routes, and they circumnavigate central London. So a `Severe Delay` on Overground could be anywhere on this large network, not helping anyone out. The 7 lines need shorter, more easily identifiable names (ie East London, South London, DC, GOBLIN lines), and they need to be split out as a separate tab in the Status Update TfL page.

We have an entire thread devoted to just this. At Bow Road station today the Overground was shown as part closed (Highbury & Islington to Shadwell, Surrey Quays to New Cross), part suspended (Cannonbury to Stratford), minor delays (Canonbury to somewhere west of there on the NLL) and good service (all other parts).

[Tomcakes]

First off, why announce when there is a 'good' service? Surely only impaired service should be unusual enough to warrant a tannoy?

Whilst TfL may not like to admit it, I think it's in their interest to be as honest as possible and over-estimate delays rather than the opposite. For example, if my normal route to work has Minor Delays I'll stick with it, but if there are Severe Delays I will take another route. There are also issues with knock on effects not being advertised. For example, if there are Severe Delays on the Victoria line in the am peak, you will not be able to catch a Piccadilly line train at Arsenal/Holloway Rd/Caledonian Rd as the trains will fill to capacity at Finsbury Park. However, the staff at those stations will still happily bleat out a good service message, despite the passengers who are unable to board being severely delayed!

As to the distinction between suspended and closed, I don't really mind as it doesn't make any difference whether it was planned or unplanned - the service is still not there!

It would be useful if the information were routinely given out on the DVA similar to how the Vicky line does, although perhaps in fewer words. Some Picc drivers have a habit of giving a service update upon leaving Caledonian Rd on the west which is useful as any passenger whos journey may be affected by (say) delays on the Central line is thus given an opportunity to take an alternative route from King's Cross. It might be useful if something similar were done at the approach to zone 1 on all lines.