Stepping back - drivers of first and last movements

[Chris M]

When stepping back is being used there is one more driver than there are trains for them to drive, the extra being the one walking the length of the platform to be ready to take out the train after the one they drove in - assuming this is happening at the southernmost station of a service, which is not the location of a train or crew depot.

Driver 1 drives train 1 into the platform and shuts down that cab
Driver 2, who was waiting at the north end of the platform, gets into the north end cab and starts opening it up.
Driver 1 signals to driver 2 that the south end cab is clear and starts walking to the north end of the platform, while driver 2 closes the doors and departs
Driver 3 then arrives with train 2 and the same thing repeats.

But the first driver to be waiting at the north end of the platform can't have driven a train there - the driver of train 0 shut down the south end cab, walked to the north end, opened up etc and drove train 0 back north again. Is it just as simple as driver 2 travelling as a passenger on train 0?

Similarly at the end of stepping back, driver 30 drives train 29 into the station, shuts down while driver 29 gets into the north cab, closes the doors and drives train 29 northbound. Driver 31 arrives with train 30, walks the length of the platform and drivers train 30 north again.
Driver 29 is left without a train to drive - do they just catch the train (29 or 30 presumably) as a passenger to their depot?

[North End]

Feb 6, 2018 2:31:09 GMT Chris M said:

When stepping back is being used there is one more driver than there are trains for them to drive, the extra being the one walking the length of the platform to be ready to take out the train after the one they drove in - assuming this is happening at the southernmost station of a service, which is not the location of a train or crew depot.

Driver 1 drives train 1 into the platform and shuts down that cab
Driver 2, who was waiting at the north end of the platform, gets into the north end cab and starts opening it up.
Driver 1 signals to driver 2 that the south end cab is clear and starts walking to the north end of the platform, while driver 2 closes the doors and departs
Driver 3 then arrives with train 2 and the same thing repeats.

But the first driver to be waiting at the north end of the platform can't have driven a train there - the driver of train 0 shut down the south end cab, walked to the north end, opened up etc and drove train 0 back north again. Is it just as simple as driver 2 travelling as a passenger on train 0?

Similarly at the end of stepping back, driver 30 drives train 29 into the station, shuts down while driver 29 gets into the north cab, closes the doors and drives train 29 northbound. Driver 31 arrives with train 30, walks the length of the platform and drivers train 30 north again.
Driver 29 is left without a train to drive - do they just catch the train (29 or 30 presumably) as a passenger to their depot?

Yes it's as simple as a duty simply picking up at the step back location instead of the normal pick up place for the depot concerned. The driver can get there however he likes as long as he is in position ready at the correct time and place. Normally there is a "step back manager" rostered at the location to oversee things and to make decisions if someone isn't in position for whatever reason.

Of course some step back locations (e.g. Morden, Brixton etc) are crew depots in their own right, so it's even easier. In fact Aldgate now seems to be the only regular location which isn't a depot - unless I'm forgetting somewhere.

[paulsw2]

Feb 6, 2018 3:28:12 GMT North End said:

Feb 6, 2018 2:31:09 GMT Chris M said:

When stepping back is being used there is one more driver than there are trains for them to drive, the extra being the one walking the length of the platform to be ready to take out the train after the one they drove in - assuming this is happening at the southernmost station of a service, which is not the location of a train or crew depot.

Driver 1 drives train 1 into the platform and shuts down that cab
Driver 2, who was waiting at the north end of the platform, gets into the north end cab and starts opening it up.
Driver 1 signals to driver 2 that the south end cab is clear and starts walking to the north end of the platform, while driver 2 closes the doors and departs
Driver 3 then arrives with train 2 and the same thing repeats.

But the first driver to be waiting at the north end of the platform can't have driven a train there - the driver of train 0 shut down the south end cab, walked to the north end, opened up etc and drove train 0 back north again. Is it just as simple as driver 2 travelling as a passenger on train 0?

Similarly at the end of stepping back, driver 30 drives train 29 into the station, shuts down while driver 29 gets into the north cab, closes the doors and drives train 29 northbound. Driver 31 arrives with train 30, walks the length of the platform and drivers train 30 north again.
Driver 29 is left without a train to drive - do they just catch the train (29 or 30 presumably) as a passenger to their depot?

Yes it's as simple as a duty simply picking up at the step back location instead of the normal pick up place for the depot concerned. The driver can get there however he likes as long as he is in position ready at the correct time and place. Normally there is a "step back manager" rostered at the location to oversee things and to make decisions if someone isn't in position for whatever reason.

Of course some step back locations (e.g. Morden, Brixton etc) are crew depots in their own right, so it's even easier. In fact Aldgate now seems to be the only regular location which isn't a depot - unless I'm forgetting somewhere.

Walthamstow Central on the vic also has stepping back

[greggygreggygreg]

The driver can just stay on the train they've driven in.

[aslefshrugged]

On the Waterloo and City there are stepbacks at Waterloo until around 10pm (I think), I'd imagine other lines would do the same and resume "normal" working when fast turnarounds aren't required

At Walthamstow Central they keep up the fast turnarounds until around 23:00 after which there's more than enough time for a lone driver to change ends.

[Jerome H]

Out of curiosity, how many different trains will a driver drive on a typical shift?

[North End]

Feb 6, 2018 16:15:29 GMT Jerome H said:

Out of curiosity, how many different trains will a driver drive on a typical shift?

Normally at least two trains. This may increase to 3 or 4 if thenduty is in three or four parts. Then add in stepping back and you could increase this to 5 or 6. More on a short line like the Vic. It is of course possible to drive the same train more than once in a duty.

[paulsw2]

For us District Drivers at Acton we normally have 2 or 3 trains per duty however during engineering works (depending on closure location) we can actually work on more I remember a weekend or two we stepped back at Tower Hill and some duties had 6 trains

[zbang]

I assume this is done to give drivers a required break. Yes?

[domh245]

Feb 6, 2018 17:13:05 GMT zbang said:

I assume this is done to give drivers a required break. Yes?

Stepping back is done for the benefit of the service, as it allows you to run more trains. If you didn't employ stepping back, the minimum turn-around time at the terminus would be the length of time it takes for the driver to walk from one end of the train to the other, whereas with stepping back, you can run trains as frequently as the infrastructure allows, as the driver merely has to get off the train before it can depart again with a new driver, so long as they can get from one end of the platform to the other in the time it takes for the next train to be ready to leave.

As for the multiple trains/day, that's more as a consequence of the required break period than a reason for it. The driver is entitled to a meal break at some point of the day and so usually ends up with a different train to the one they had before.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2018 18:11:27 GMT domh245 said:

Feb 6, 2018 17:13:05 GMT zbang said:

I assume this is done to give drivers a required break. Yes?

As for the multiple trains/day, that's more as a consequence of the required break period than a reason for it. The driver is entitled to a meal break at some point of the day and so usually ends up with a different train to the one they had before.

Hehe, now I've got this idea in my head of drivers having their own trains and customising them and painting them in their colours

[MoreToJack]

Feb 6, 2018 18:16:41 GMT tut said:

Feb 6, 2018 18:11:27 GMT domh245 said:

As for the multiple trains/day, that's more as a consequence of the required break period than a reason for it. The driver is entitled to a meal break at some point of the day and so usually ends up with a different train to the one they had before.

Hehe, now I've got this idea in my head of drivers having their own trains and customising them and painting them in their colours

No fair, I want to customise my cabins... 😂

[superteacher]

Feb 6, 2018 18:16:41 GMT tut said:

Feb 6, 2018 18:11:27 GMT domh245 said:

As for the multiple trains/day, that's more as a consequence of the required break period than a reason for it. The driver is entitled to a meal break at some point of the day and so usually ends up with a different train to the one they had before.

Hehe, now I've got this idea in my head of drivers having their own trains and customising them and painting them in their colours

Go faster stripes anyone?

[North End]

Feb 6, 2018 18:31:10 GMT superteacher said:

Feb 6, 2018 18:16:41 GMT tut said:

Hehe, now I've got this idea in my head of drivers having their own trains and customising them and painting them in their colours

Go faster stripes anyone?

It’s always been the case that certain individual trains perform better than others, and even sometimes the same train can handle very differently depending on which end it is being driven from. For example, 51520/704 is a good train at the moment - good motoring and very solid brakes, and thus very good for surpassing ATO performance whilst driving manually...

[Chris M]

Feb 6, 2018 18:11:27 GMT domh245 said:

Stepping back is done for the benefit of the service, as it allows you to run more trains. If you didn't employ stepping back, the minimum turn-around time at the terminus would be the length of time it takes for the driver to walk from one end of the train to the other, whereas with stepping back, you can run trains as frequently as the infrastructure allows, as the driver merely has to get off the train before it can depart again with a new driver, so long as they can get from one end of the platform to the other in the time it takes for the next train to be ready to leave.

If they can't walk along the platform that fast (for whatever reason) then double stepping back can be employed, where instead of Driver 1 arriving on train 1 and leaving on train 2 they leave on train 3. I guess this is more complicate to manage though?

[superteacher]

Feb 6, 2018 20:22:02 GMT Chris M said:

Feb 6, 2018 18:11:27 GMT domh245 said:

Stepping back is done for the benefit of the service, as it allows you to run more trains. If you didn't employ stepping back, the minimum turn-around time at the terminus would be the length of time it takes for the driver to walk from one end of the train to the other, whereas with stepping back, you can run trains as frequently as the infrastructure allows, as the driver merely has to get off the train before it can depart again with a new driver, so long as they can get from one end of the platform to the other in the time it takes for the next train to be ready to leave.

If they can't walk along the platform that fast (for whatever reason) then double stepping back can be employed, where instead of Driver 1 arriving on train 1 and leaving on train 2 they leave on train 3. I guess this is more complicate to manage though?

That’s what happens on the Victoria line. The driver takes out the following train on the same platform as the train which they brought in, so effectively stepping back two trains. What it does mean is that more drivers are needed than with stepping back one train.