LU goes into wristbands!

[Tomcakes]

cgi.ebay.co.uk/London-Underground-Piccadilly-Line-Wristband-NEW_W0QQitemZ6556617002QQcategoryZ4152QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(copy and paste the whole thing into your address bar)

""Professionalism prevents Piccadilly SPADs""

I reckon they should do some District ones for wrong sticks .

[Deleted]

Nice to see LU wasting more of their money on patronising rubbish.

[Chris M]

tombeevers said:

""Professionalism prevents Piccadilly SPADs""

Does this imply that professionalism doesn't precent SPADs on other lines?
Or are the other lines just generally more professional that the Picc?

Chris

[Deleted]

Personally, I think they are a good idea. Its simple really, if you dont like em', dont wear em'!

[piccadillypilot]

metapprentice said:

Personally, I think they are a good idea.!

Why?

[Deleted]

piccadillypilot said:

Why?

It is an optional way of supporting the on going task of reducing SPADS.

Remember you dont have to wear them...

In any Case I am entitled to a personal view on everything, whether you agree or not.

[piccadillypilot]

metapprentice said:

It is an optional way of supporting the on going task of reducing SPADS.

How does it do that?

Remember you dont have to wear them...

Understood and accepted.

In any Case I am entitled to a personal view on everything, whether you agree or not.

Absolutely right, and I'm not trying to say otherwise. I'm merely curious to find out why you think they're a good idea. In what way will they help people to improve their driving, how will they be of practical benefit?

[chris]

Very few people will understand LU ones.

[igelkotten]

So, does this mean that drivers with latex allergies will be overrepresented in Piccadilly SPADs?

[Deleted]

piccadillypilot said:

How does it do that?

It shows that you are committed to reducing SPADs (as i have already said).

They will be a practical benefit because you can them immediately see what the persons view is in regards to SPADs, as everyone doesnt sing from the same hymn book.

The same could be said for the nationwide wristbands people way that all signify different subjects, however people wear them.

As i keep emphasising, they are optional, and you do not have to wear them. If you dont like them, dont wear them!

[Tomcakes]

But why should these bands be given priority over things that would actually make things run better?

If they must have wristbands, buy an economy bulk pack of rubber bands from Staples.

[piccadillypilot]

metapprentice said:

It shows that you are committed to reducing SPADs (as i have already said).

Indeed you have said it, but I still don't understand how they will help to stop driver's clobbering sticks.

Surely everyone, especially drivers, are committed to reducing "SPADS" and do all they can to avoid over-running signals, or am I missing something?

[Deleted]

piccadillypilot said:

Indeed you have said it, but I still don't understand how they will help to stop driver's clobbering sticks.

It will not physically stop drivers hitting sticks, the only physical thing that will stop train operators hitting signals is consentration.

The wristbands as I have already said, can show you immediately what the persons view is in regards to SPADs, as everyone doesnt sing from the same hymn book.

piccadillypilot said:

Surely everyone, especially drivers, are committed to reducing "SPADS" and do all they can to avoid over-running signals, or am I missing something?

Yes I should hope they are, however everyone thinks differently and has different ideas about things, which can clearly be seen from how this thread has progessed on. However everyone is entiled to a view, whether they put it into practise is something totally different

[Deleted]

They'll make a good elastic band to hold my duty book together

[Deleted]

Yes MA. Concentration, absolutely right, perhaps the wristband should be better worded !

[piccadillypilot]

dennis said:

perhaps the wristband should be better worded !

Or the cash put into a budget marked "Improving Signal Sightlines".

[Deleted]

piccadillypilot said:

Or the cash put into a budget marked "Improving Signal Sightlines".

The thing is though PP, is that most of the time, SPADs are not because of the sighting time of signals, it is lack of consentration of the Train Operator

[piccadillypilot]

metapprentice said:

it is lack of consentration of the Train Operator

BTDTGTTS

[Deleted]

piccadillypilot said:

metapprentice said:

it is lack of consentration of the Train Operator

BTDTGTTS

And that means??

[piccadillypilot]

metapprentice said:

piccadillypilot said:

BTDTGTTS

And that means??

Been There Done That Got The T Shirt.

[Chris M]

metapprentice said:

piccadillypilot said:

How does it do that?

They will be a practical benefit because you can them immediately see what the persons view is in regards to SPADs, as everyone doesnt sing from the same hymn book.

I don't understand how they will do that.
Bear in mind that I am not a train driver, and never have been. I've also never worked with train drivers, or for LU in any capacity. However, if I were a train driver, I would be absolutely committed to not SPADing - regardless of any reasons of job security, but common sense. A signal is at Danger for a reason - passing it is dangerous. Even if I were an adreneline (sp?) junkie (which I'm not), getting my kicks while driving a train is NOT apropriate or sensible.

Now, assuming I were a driver on the Pic, I highly doubt that I would be wearing a wristband for the simple reason I don't like wrist bands. The only thing I can stand on my wrist is my watch, and then it has to be tight (so it doesn't move around) and in the right place. Sometimes I will even take that off because it is annoying me. If I did wear it, it wouldn't be long before I took it off. Knowing me, it wouldn't be five minutes after I took it off that I lost it.

From what I understand your post to mean, you would be able to see at a glance who is comited to reducing SPADs. There will be people like me, who are committed and don't wear the wrist band, indeed as someone said earlier, there will be people who can't wear the wrist band - are they automatically not committed to reducing SPADs? What about the people who couldn't care less about SPADing, the chances are they couldn't care less about wearing a wrist band that says they are concerned about them, and will wear them because its politic to do so?

I honestly don't think it will tell you anything about the person's views, other than they don't have a latex allergy and don't mind wearing a writstband that says "Proffesionalism preverts Picadilly SPADs".

If there is a problem with SPADs, then you need to try and understand why they are occuring. There have been two possibilities posted on this thead - signal siting and driver concentration. AFAIU on the mainline, each signal has a SPAD tally that shows how many times it has been passed at danger. If the tally reaches a certain number in a certian time (3 in 5 years?) then it is automatically investigated whether there is a pattern in the SPADs - e.g. do they all occur on sunny mornings in February? If a pattern is found, then action is taken to find out why that pattern exists (e.g. the sunlight drowns out the signal) and to do something about it (e.g. erect a sunshade that blocks the sun from the angle its at on sunny mornings in February).
If the problem is with signal sitedness, then this is the sort of thing I would expect - a small number of singals being passed a relatively high number of times. (e.g. 10 SPADs occurred at 3 signals).

If driver concentration is the problem then I would expect that a larger number of signals are being passed a fewer number of times each (e.g. 10 SPADs occurred at 9 signals). In this case you need to establish why the drivers aren't concentrating (see also the Boredom thread on this forum) and try and address this issue. Perhaps there are sections that are particularly mind numbning or are very similar so that drivers get confused. Maybe the solution to this is to do something to make the stretches of tunnel look/feel different. Perhaps lay coloured strips in the four foot, different for different sections. Or maybe the drivers cab should have a last station and next station id - perhaps broadcastable via the CDSE equipment or near to it.
Or possibly require the driver to perfom some action at random intervals, maybe push a green button when they hear a bell or a blue button when they hear a buzzer.
Alternatively, perhaps more frequent, shorter breaks are a possibility?

Chris

[piccadillypilot]

awkward42 said:

metapprentice said:

They will be a practical benefit because you can them immediately see what the persons view is in regards to SPADs, as everyone doesnt sing from the same hymn book.

I don't understand how they will do that.

Quite. Such things are nothing more than stupid gestures that don't do a thing to address the cause of a problem.

The problem of drivers losing concentration was highlighted during WW2 when they were unable (along with everyone else) to get proper sleep. There is a story that Churchill was visiting Down Street on one occasion and the railwayman in charge tried to stop a train to carry Churchill away. Several trains went passed before a driver stopped.

The question of what the railway operators do to prevent drivers passing red sticks is one that will occupy more experienced minds than ours for many years to come.

[citysig]

So we've jumped on the old wear an elastic band band-wagon have we. Not a sign that you support policies aimed at reducing poverty. Oh no, this goes one better. That you are committed to not passing a signal at danger.

If anyone came near me with a similar elastic band aimed at preventing wrong signals, I would either use it to strap their genitals to a high voltage cable, or wrap it around the computer desk and see if it can do any better.

What a pathetic waste of everyone's time and money. They are not a good idea, I don't care how you dress it up. There are many more sensible ways of tackling problems.

[Tom]

Actually they're not latex, more of a plastic. But I still wouldn't wear one.

[Deleted]

awkward42 said:

A signal is at Danger for a reason - passing it is dangerous.

The only time they could be unsafe is if there is a comprimised overlap, or if there was nothing to stop a train if it was to go past a signal at danger.

Under "normal" conditions, a SPAD is not dangerous, as the train will be stopped.

[Phil]

metapprentice said:

Under "normal" conditions, a SPAD is not dangerous, as the train will be stopped.

As one who drives on a line not protected by tripcocks I find that statement very very worrying. You seem to imply, MA, that it does not really matter if you bother to stop at a red or not.

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

metapprentice said:

Under "normal" conditions, a SPAD is not dangerous, as the train will be stopped.

As one who drives on a line not protected by tripcocks I find that statement very very worrying. You seem to imply, MA, that it does not really matter if you bother to stop at a red or not.

Iam not implying that at all. However iam not saying that you should have a SPAD as a red signal is telling to to stop, because theren is a train in the section ahead.

If you are travelling at or below normal line speed, and there is no defect on the train, and you go past a signal at danger, you should be stopped within the overlap. If you comprimise the overlap, by travelling at a speed higher than the line speed for the particular section, then hit a signal, you will not be stopped within the overlap, this is when it becomes dangerous.

If a driver accpets a wrong route, this is classed as a SPAD, however it isnt dangerous is it ?

There is a differwnce between dangerous and acceptable, a SPAD isnt acceptable, however they are not always dangerous.

[Phil]

metapprentice said:

If a driver accpets a wrong route, this is classed as a SPAD, however it isnt dangerous is it ?

I thought that if a driver accepted a wrong stick but it was green this is NOT classed as a SPAD, but something else, still subject to disciplinary action, though not as severe...

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

metapprentice said:

If a driver accpets a wrong route, this is classed as a SPAD, however it isnt dangerous is it ?

I thought that if a driver accepted a wrong stick but it was green this is NOT classed as a SPAD, but something else, still subject to disciplinary action, though not as severe...

Correct. When I started the District campaign to reclaim the South Harrow branch I was merely interviewed by a DMT and told, I must pay more attention to signals in future, I even got to go home as a reward as the spare finished my turn.

[piccadillypilot]

jim said:

I even got to go home as a reward as the spare finished my turn.

How many pints do you now owe him?