Train describers at Baker Street

[silenthunter]

Why do these use a non-standard layout and font? It's completely different to most of the network.

[A60stock]

On top of this, why are these the only platforms to use full LED screens on the entire network! They should use these on the rest of the network, as older DMIs get replaced.

[spsmiler]

The status of this station is unique on the London Underground - peripheral terminus station for (some) suburban trains. Only Aldgate and Moorgate get near, but these are city centre stations - not on an 'outer edge' ring road, as per Kings Cross, Euston.

It used to be (may still be?) that if you have a main line railway ticket to a London Terminus station (ordinary open ticket / not one of the 'specified train' advance tickets) for a train from the north it would also be valid at Baker Street.

All harks back to the days when the Metropolitan was an independent railway that saw itself as a main line operator.

[xtmw]

Assuming this is not safety critical, TfL will come to this in good time since they get the job done and efforts can be concentrated elsewhere.

[t697]

Although the screens were renewed only a few years ago, I think the software driving what is shown is the same as drove the CRT screens they replaced.

[silenthunter]

Oct 16, 2023 16:56:43 GMT t697 said:

Although the screens were renewed only a few years ago, I think the software driving what is shown is the same as drove the CRT screens they replaced.

They look the same, yes.

[d7666]

Oct 25, 2023 19:57:43 GMT silenthunter said:

Oct 16, 2023 16:56:43 GMT t697 said:

Although the screens were renewed only a few years ago, I think the software driving what is shown is the same as drove the CRT screens they replaced.

They look the same, yes.

Not since CBTC migration SMA no; the "a few years ago" wording does not apply.

The raw info is currently generated from central CBTC kit at Hammersmith and centrally processed by non CBTC kit co-located at Hammersmith; before CBTC the raw info came from MLCC gubbins and processed within Baker Street SCC complex.

The current local station site kit (MAGIC box) was upgraded before CBTC yes, but not much before that, cetainly not "a few years ago"; MAGIC is an acronym but I forget what it stands for and why the person who named it did so; I will have to ask them again; MAGIC boxes are rolled out ahead of CBTC migration.

What you see might look the same; what you can not see - the driving systems and software - is quite different. The displays are all but irrelevant, they merely display what they are sent.

[t697]

I used "a few years ago" because I couldn't recall the exact number. I agree it was well before CBTC at Baker Street and that the raw info source has been changed. I was thinking more of the screen's display layout, colours, font and so on being inherited from the previous CRT screens.
Just so I can be more careful on some other occasion, what range might be considered reasonable as "a few years ago" I wonder?

[Chris M]

Oct 25, 2023 21:01:21 GMT t697 said:

Just so I can be more careful on some other occasion, what range might be considered reasonable as "a few years ago" I wonder?

In my experience, the older I get the longer "a few years ago" encompasses. I used it this morning in reference to something that happened circa 20 years ago, something I never would have done 20 years ago!

[brigham]

I remember David Nixon's Magic Box on the telly.
That was a good few years ago.

[Chris L]

The displays show the destination and all the stations where the train will stop.Some services omit stations

How could this information be shown on the standard LUL displays?

[t697]

Oct 26, 2023 16:55:49 GMT Chris L said:

The displays show the destination and all the stations where the train will stop.Some services omit stations

How could this information be shown on the standard LUL displays?

Agreed, not very well at Baker Street!

Finchley Road DMI attempts to show the stops for the next train and the stopping pattern description for each train, but there's only one NB platform of course.

The current DMIs at Harrow aren't a complete success at this sort of thing in my opinion.

[xtmw]

I think we also have to bear in mind that there are still old Dot Matrix Indicators across the network (some of which have been used since the 90s), not all of them can be replaced at once and are being upgraded to modern standards. The same with the Baker Street platform screens. They will most likely be updated with the capability to show more in-depth information.

I do have to say the platform indicators like South Kensington (Piccadilly Line), Earl's Court and Harrow-on-the-Hill aren't the best. They are pretty small and can't really be seen from a distance. I much prefer the Central Line 90s DMI as they were big, and could be seen from a distance. Enough of that though - don't want to go drifting over to the Central Line.

[metman]

The Harrow-on-the-Hill screens are very ordinary and that is being polite. I was sad when the old light boxes were replaced but hoped for a better solution. I’m not we got one.

Baker Street has always felt like a mainline station, I can’t think of any other underground station like it.

[goldenarrow]

Given that the Met is operating between 8-10 different service patterns during peak hours, having a conventional calling point set up on regular DMIs does present issues, especially on the combined route with the Circle where the frequency between services is so low that it would barely manage to get through one cycle before the next train departs. The displays at Baker Street may be a little clunky, but they strike a good compromise for a line that makes its name from operational oddities.

[d7666]

This is where Paris RER style four letter mnemonic "head codes" would come into play if every Met. route destination AND stopping pattern had its own word.

The train front, and platform DMI would simply display, say, the mnemonic and destination, while mnemonic itself is decoded on a fixed wall map / diagram / poster, or perhaps on an associated LED display nearby changing with each departure; regulars will know the meaning anyway.

I prefer a mnemonic rather than a bus route type headcode (or an array of 5 lamps if you must go that far back) as it is easier for 'normals' to remember.

[Chris L]

Very much last century. Possibly fine for frequent travellers but absolutely no use to most passengers. Insufficient space on the existing standard displays to do this.

[xtmw]

I recall on the Met line platforms at Finchley Road there were platform indicators capable of display 4 (or 5?) lines of information. They would display the first train and its calling points, along with the second train. Maybe they could use this at Baker Street with some sort of changes for travellers to see accurate and detailed information?

[class411]

Oct 25, 2023 23:40:00 GMT Chris M said:

Oct 25, 2023 21:01:21 GMT t697 said:

Just so I can be more careful on some other occasion, what range might be considered reasonable as "a few years ago" I wonder?

In my experience, the older I get the longer "a few years ago" encompasses. I used it this morning in reference to something that happened circa 20 years ago, something I never would have done 20 years ago!

I think our memories work on a logarithmic scale.

Whatever age you are, 10% of your life is perceived as the same duration.

So by the time you finished primary school, your time there would be almost your entire remembered life.

And the six/seven years of secondary school which were ~30% of your life seemed to last an enormous length of time, whereas 6 years at the age of fifty is perceived as relatively far less.

If you manage to make it to ninety, the years 80-90 would be the same proportion of your life as two years at the age of eighteen.

[Chris L]

Oct 28, 2023 10:19:01 GMT xtmw said:

I recall on the Met line platforms at Finchley Road there were platform indicators capable of display 4 (or 5?) lines of information. They would display the first train and its calling points, along with the second train. Maybe they could use this at Baker Street with some sort of changes for travellers to see accurate and detailed information?

I think there are more modern versions of the current Baker Street displays that would be far better. No scrolling.

[A60stock]

I think the screens at Baker Street do a good job***. Screens similar to this (or a simplified version of the thameslink core platform screens), are needed at Finchley Road Northbound, Harrow on the Hill, all platforms except platform 2 (why they didnt use the opportunity to do this when the light boxes were replaced!!!!) and Moor Park Southbound platforms.

***Baker street now needs an auto announcer, like you have at London Marylebone/Euston for example. Just set the announcer to turn off when it gets late (e.g. after 9) to avoid causing disturbance to the locals.