LT oil tail lamps AND electric tail lights ?

[d7666]

Looking at this flickr album

www.flickr.com/photos/trains-travel/albums/72157701273132882/with/44534956020

- when did LT cease to use oil (I assume paraffin) tail lamps ?

But my real question - can't say I'd noticed before but from these photos 62 stock seem to have red electric tail lights as well as oil lamps - why both ?

Then

www.flickr.com/photos/trains-travel/albums/72157674048653477/

also for R stock - why both ?

[Dstock7080]

R Stock were the last to use oil lamps, ending in 1983.

The main reason was that the twin electric lights were single fused and if that blew there wouldn’t be any light. CO/CP and earlier Stock only a single electric light.

Tube Stock were converted to double fuses much earlier therefore the use of oil lamps ended before.

(I had great pleasure in always maintaining a lit oil lamp on the rear of my train while acting as Guard, much to the annoyance of my drivers!)

previous thread, in which I gave much the same reply!
use of oil handlamps

[jimbo]

The above seems to be about oil lamps on running lines. Did oil lamps on stabled trains continue longer? The electric tail-lights could run down the battery over-night whilst traction current was off. Oil stabling lamps were eventually replaced by a specially installed stabling light on each cab end.

[Dstock7080]

There was no requirement for stabled trains to display an oil lamp.
Traction current would usually remain on in depots.
Movement speed in depots is very low and obstructions should be seen.

[towerman]

Used to be an ex guard(medical)at Hainault whose job was filling and lighting oil lamps on stabled trains in the evening.Electric stabling lights were fitted to 62TS in late 60s early 70s.

[ted672]

As a slight aside, I recall that while at the Dist and Picc Divisional Office in 1975-6 hand oil lamps were being phased out in favour of Bardic lamps. At one stage there was a shortage and management resorted to chrome-plated torches with two or three-colour filters of the kind that could be bought at Woolworths. It was postulated that some of these would not remain in guards's bags for long. There was also the problem of supplying depots with U2 batteries (as was).

I was fortunate to have been given an unissued three-aspect oil lamp with a yellow top as a result of the changeover. Happy days!

[d7666]

Jan 2, 2024 6:38:23 GMT Dstock7080 said:

R Stock were the last to use oil lamps, ending in 1983.

The main reason was that the twin electric lights were single fused and if that blew there wouldn’t be any light. CO/CP and earlier Stock only a single electric light.

Tube Stock were converted to double fuses much earlier therefore the use of oil lamps ended before.

(I had great pleasure in always maintaining a lit oil lamp on the rear of my train while acting as Guard, much to the annoyance of my drivers!)

previous thread, in which I gave much the same reply!
use of oil handlamps

Thanks.

One has to wonder why if R stock twin red lights were single fused was a problem why they were not split ..... or indeed who designed things like that in the first place ..... but then again knowing how things are probably arrived at best not to delve deeper into that one as I suspect it came down to trying to save fourpence happenny per unit in 1949.

I Didn't find the other thread ! As that dated from 2005 perhaps a re-run of it 19 years later might have been worth it ?

[towerman]

Maybe because a lot of R stock motor cars were originally Q stock cars.

[d7666]

Jan 2, 2024 22:00:59 GMT towerman said:

Maybe because a lot of R stock motor cars were originally Q stock cars.

But is that a reason ? Surely the Q rebuilds were contemporaneous with R new builds, all one project to make up the cars into sets, so the same question would apply irrespective of where each car came from ?

It was Q trailers converted to R driving motors (yes ?) ? As the Q trailers would have no tail light => fitting new tail lights to the rebuild's is actually no different to fitting tail lights to new builds.

Anyway, it is more to the point what kind of thinking, on an electric train, on an electric railway, was going to fit 2 red tail lights but single fuse the pair, irrespective of what type of train they were. That way of thinking is the one that leads to an accident first and HM Inspector to recommend a change.

[towerman]

I thought it was Q38 motor cars converted to R38 motor cars,maybe as built Q38 car tail lights were single fused and they thought it wasn’t worth changing it.

[Dstock7080]

Although off topic, all R38 driving motors were converted from Q38 trailer cars.

[towerman]

I stand corrected.

[metman]

There were off course the 6 R49 driving motor cars built from new but as said I expect it was just what was done at the time!

I understand that the A stock, 1956-62 tube stock and even 1938 tube stock carried oil lamps in the early days which was perhaps a proving exercise as much as anything.

Interesting times…

[towerman]

First stock with electric stabling lights was 67TS.

[brigham]

The question is actually the wrong way round. What we want to know is 'when were electric tail lamps considered safe enough to be used instead of the normal oil lamp?'.

[Dstock7080]

I think that was already answered in post 2 and other linked thread.
No sure it's "we", more likely "you".