New White City Depot

[Deleted]

What kind of shiny new amenities will be available in the new White City Depot (other than the lack of graffiti)? Will AETs be based there or will it just be T/Ops and depot staff?

Also, how will drivers get into the depot? Will they go via the Place That Shall Not Be Named or will they be busily tromping through the mall and using an interior Staff Only entrance?

Finally, a previous post by Phil states that there are seventeen routes available from the inlet signal - a route for the 16 sidings, and a route into one siding that is used for reversing onto the depot outlet road. Will a train standing at the inlet signal be clear of the station layout or will it foul it?

[Deleted]

The clearances for the fan from one road to 16 roads is very tight, and a lot of LU Track Standards have had to have been modified to accept the local conditions...

Apparently the walkways which lead alongside the trains, have already given some cause for concern, because they are made out of metal mesh, some kind of grille with around 2inch by 1 inch holes, which would allow, say a J key to be dropped through them, which would then fall into the drainage channel underneath... Lots of lighting down there, but even with NO trains present it is rather stuffy... one wonders just what it will be like with 16 trains all pumping out heat... It is suggested there will be an emergency exit INTO the shopping plaza. Quite how this will work when say the last train stables there is beyond me...

Apart from bare concrete, and the walkway railings, there ain't much else thats shiny as yet...

[Deleted]

BUMP.

Having just digested the report in Underground News #539, I can now understand ATO's ambivalence.

The report, however, does contain some interesting tidbits:
- The Place That Shall Not Be Named is supposedly going to "disappear from view" as part of the development. At the moment, Those Who Know can see it quite readily, and I wouldn't have considered it as being easily "disappeared" from view.
- Can the sidings be entered faster than 15mph, and can they be entered in ATO?
- The blurb at the end of the report about removing the roof at White City and turning it into a subsurface station was also quite interesting. Is this actually going to happen?!?

[Colin]

You can name Wood Lane control centre - just don't post any pics of it!


This weeks traffic circular contains all the diagrams (signalling & traction current arrangements) and background information relating to the new White City sidings. It is stated within this information that all movements will "normally be in coded manual". Unfortunately speed limits are not mentioned, but as the sidings are underground and all movements are controlled by shunt signals, I would be surprised if the speed limit were higher than 15 mph.

[Deleted]

colin said:

You can name Wood Lane control centre - just don't post any pics of it!

Ta. ACK.

colin said:

This weeks traffic circular contains all the diagrams (signalling & traction current arrangements) and background information relating to the new White City sidings. It is stated within this information that all movements will "normally be in coded manual". Unfortunately speed limits are not mentioned, but as the sidings are underground and all movements are controlled by shunt signals, I would be surprised if the speed limit were higher than 15 mph.

As I expected. Apparently the prominent mention that the sidings have their own full interlocking and are classed as an operational railway rather than a standard depot site doesn't extend to removal of the standard 15mph shunt signal speed limit.

I wonder if the signalling plans for the sidings will be made public - the numbers used for the signals and points must be extremely large.

[Colin]

Access to the sidings is from shunt signals (WHC) 2663, 2665 & 2667.

New shunt signals appear to be (WCS) 9550, 9551, 9552, 9553, 9554, 9556,9558, 9560, 9562,9564, 9566, 9568, 9570, 9572, 9574, 9576, 9578 & 9580.

New point numbers are 9600E - 9614E.

Current shunt signal WHC2664 will be relocated and used as the outlet signal, making WHC2666 redundant.

[Deleted]

Thanks COLIN. I knew the numbering for the new infrastructure would be high but not that high - it seems that the Central Line has taken a page out of NR's S&T numbering policy manual.

Which shunt signals allow for trains to reverse via the depot? Phil said that the shunt signal providing primary access to the depot sidings had 17 routes - one for each siding, and one for reversing trains.

Also, does the T/C say what will happen to the exit route? The report in the Underground News says that the exit route will be retained but no longer used by trains exiting the depot; does this mean that trains will be issuing from what used to be the entrance most of the time?

[Colin]

There is an additional shunt signal on the approach to 12 & 13 sidings (numbered WCS9553) to allow for reverser's.

As for you other question, I don't know the area well enough to fully answer your question. All I can say is that the depot has one road for both entry & exit. Trains will get the shunt from their respective siding, allowing movement up to WHC2664, which has 3 routes - one for each platform.

The traffic circular says that "2722 points (the westbound exit road) will be scotched & clipped out of use, to be plain lined at a future date". "2716 points will be renewed to an altered alignment to connect the eastbound, centre and westbound roads at White City station to the new sidings".

[Tom]

colin said:

New point numbers are 9600E - 9614E.

Yes, every set of points consists of an 'E' end, whatever happened to A, B C, and D?

It is in reality one of a number of errors on the Traffic Controller's Diagram. Just goes to show what happens when I'm not the one drawing it. ;D

[Deleted]

BUMP.

I was amazed to see that the new siding entry road is still not connected! Has this been delayed for some reason, or did I misunderstand the purpose of the engineering works in the area?

[Tom]

Yes, it has been delayed. The new date is sometime in the new year.

[Deleted]

Oh whoopee. I'll bet the contractors assigned to demolish the old sheds were none too pleased...

[Deleted]

Preliminary date is in March for points 2716 and 2722 to be altered...

As usual, I will add the cautionary 'Subject to Change'...

[Deleted]

And which points are 2716 and 2722?

[Deleted]

theonekea said:

And which points are 2716 and 2722?

see reply #7, last para...

It's been scheduled to take place during April 2007, first two weekends...

[scaldy92]

New to the forum. Hi !

have been reading for a while and thought ye might be interested in a few little vids of the first train into the new White City sidings.





pretty impressive sidings down there, even if the walkways are rubbish and the dust has been setting off the over sensitive fire alarm etc !

Scaldy92

[gavelex]

nice videos there

[Colin D]

The new depot looks huge, how many trains can be stabled there compared with the old one? Also are there any maintinance facilities, other than cleaning of trains

Whoops, just read the first post, question one answered

[Deleted]

I wonder who the T/Op was - I wouldn't imagine he felt comfortable, what with the big hats in the cab and that hi-vi mob surrounding him. Bad time to screw something up!

[gavelex]

theonekea said:

I wonder who the T/Op was - I wouldn't imagine he felt comfortable, what with the big hats in the cab and that hi-vi mob surrounding him. Bad time to screw something up!

Like having no code (first video)

[scaldy92]

theonekea said:

I wonder who the T/Op was - I wouldn't imagine he felt comfortable, what with the big hats in the cab and that hi-vi mob surrounding him. Bad time to screw something up!

The T/Op was a test train Driver from Ruislip depot. He was joined in the cab by Three union Health and Safety reps (to check the signals) Luckily there were no 'real' suits in the cab although there were several behind in the saloon, all of whom remained strangely silent during the first trip ! Mostly they were from Multiplex (Westfield) the constructors and Westinghouse (those who installed the signaling, and who done a sterling job by all accounts) All in all it went fairly well on the first day. Except the loss of code at the shunt which was put down to the Driver pulling up a little short. (This was since disproved as the signal section was found to be "too short" and was fixed)

[Chris M]

scaldy92 said:

The T/Op ... was joined in the cab by Three union Health and Safety reps

I thought that a maximum of three people were allowed in the cab of a moving train? Or does this apply only to passenger-carrying services?

[Deleted]

So different to the 'old shed'... which I will miss, because it had the original design juice rail, followed from CLR days...

[Deleted]

tubeoperator92 said:

So different to the 'old shed'... which I will miss, because it had the original design juice rail, followed from CLR days...

I wonder if any of it was saved for the LTM Acton. It would go nicely in a display case alongside the CLR sleet loco.

[compsci]

The curators of the museum paid a visit to the old depot the day after it closed. Among the items salvaged were some of the road numbers which had been between the rails. Not sure about anything else, which is probably in a pile waiting to be accessioned.

[Deleted]

Real shame.. 102 years of service that depot provided.

[tubeprune]

There's a bit about the old depot here: www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Woodlane%20whitecity.htm

if anyone's interested in the history.