Northern line split!

[markextube]

As very briefly mentioned in the Camden town junction thread i thought i would open a new one.

I read the official TfL report last night regarding all the projects in the pipeline up unil 2025. Some interesting stuff in there.

Anyway about 14 years ago the idea again cropped up of splitting the Northern line. Edgware- X - Kennington and MHE/Barnet - Bank - Morden. Well this idea was soon dropped because of interchange capacitiy at Camden and possibly Kennington.

Funnily enough i came across a full size experimental tube map which shows the charing cross branch as Black and the split Bank branch as orange. This was 14 years ago.

Now it's officially been mooted again to split the service up. The main reason is that after re signalling there will be around 30tph on the kennington to morden service but only 20-25tph would be possible on the charing cross and bank branches. So after all the investment in new trains and signalling the trains per hour on the branches will be at maximum capacity once again.

So the splitting of the line will be the next project to increase the service with the addition of a few extra stabling sidings somewhere. And hopefully it is expected Camden will be rebuilt by then...finally!

If i find out anymore i shall keep you posted..

[Deleted]

I think you've misspoken slightly - if the Charing Cross and Bank Branches each have a capacity between 20-25tph, whereas the Morden branch has a capacity of 30tph, then the two Zone 1 routes will in fact be underprovisioned to the order of a combined 10tph!

Constructing a second branch south of Kennington, branching from the reversing loop, would probably allow the Zone 1 route service to be considerably intensified without having to stuff more trains down the route to Morden. Taking the junction at Camden out of regular use would then allow a full 20tph on all six Northern Line routes.

[markextube]

Yes i see your point. I'm just highlighting what is said in the report as it does say after re-signalling 30tph K-Morden and 20/25 tph on the X/Bank branches. These branches causing the headchae as they mention they can't increase capacity unless the line is split. (cheaper option)

I also agree with you about pushing all the trains to Morden. As an ex driver i agree a more intense service is required to reduce the overcrowding during the peaks but with this results back log at Morden, which originally was designed to be a through station and not a main terminas.

The often mooted extention from Kennington would balance the line out and solve many problems but with all projects it needs commitment and everybody has been obsesssed with Crossrail 1 for the past twenty years without substantual progress.

What is needed is the project for Clapham common to go ahead asap simliar to Angel but using the old cross over tunnel as reversing points simliar to Euston City. Plus the loop to connect with the bank branch at Kennington which is possible if you look at the plans.

The trouble is the Northwern Line has been made up of bits, put together and pulled apart again, There is so much potential for extra sidings, crossovers and platforms at the termini. All would bring the line up to scratch but as often the case and easy or cheaper option is chosen, which has short term effects.

At the end of the day just extend all the platforms to cope with 7 car modern stock trains as on the jubilee. That would have a longer lasting effect.

Oh and lastly as a user of the line for many years and living on the High Barnet branch i would suffer regular sqeezing on trains at Camden after waiting ten minutes and hearing at least 5 trains heading to Edgware.

If the line is split and say for example the bank branch is shut down for some reason would this now mean the morden and high barnet lines would also shut down as this would now be and independent line and trains cannot be diverted from the other branches?

Makes you think hey. Good luck is all i can say to splitting it up!

[Phil]

With Morden being built as a through station, has any thought been given to a rebuild to allow reversing via the depot as with the W&C?

I would have thought that with two arrival platforms and one departure, the platform dwell times could be considerably reduced and the tph increased that way. That also means no conflicting movements on the 'service' side of the station throat. Have I missed something obvious?

In theory you could then easily depart a train every 90secs if needed.

[Deleted]

You can already reverse via the depot at Morden; the scissors crossover south of the station is controlled by IMR 'Y'. T/Ops would simply work forwards to the depot STOP boards, then return to the platform via signals Y28 or Y30.

www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Morden-lmo5-4.gif

[Phil]

theonekea said:

You can already reverse via the depot at Morden; the scissors crossover south of the station is controlled by IMR 'Y'. T/Ops would simply work forwards to the depot STOP boards, then return to the platform via signals Y28 or Y30.

www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Morden-lmo5-4.gif

Hmmm... it's all there isn't it? It just needs someone to work out a few paths in and out of 44 and 45 roads, and timings thereunto.

And if you double-ended them off the platform the tph could be increased still further (at the expense of marginally more staff).
Afterthought: if the relieved driver's next pickup was platform 1 it would create a problem unless there was a train in P2/3 to walk through. Scrap that!

[Ben]

I would love to see that full size tube map. Do you have a pic of it?

[Deleted]

benedict said:

I would love to see that full size tube map. Do you have a pic of it?

I think that this is the map concerned. My version is a scan taken from Underground Maps After Beck, which dates it to "late 1980s".

[Ben]

Now thats interesting. By the style of drawing its clear that map was designed and drawn on a computer. (The clue is in the way the 'peak hours only' sections are drawn) Since other maps from the late 80's were not digitally created, and NR wasn't shown are a white line with a black outline on public maps til 1990, I would hazard a guess that it was made in 89. This would make it one of the first computer aided designs for the tube ever done.

[Deleted]

Not sure about that, Ben. The same book has a card folder map from 1987 which is said to be produced on computer. But it has BR lines in yellow outline rather than black.

[markextube]

Thanks sydneynick for that link, yup that's the one i have. Notice the H & C in lime green! Yum. Funnily enough that was the colour that might be used for Hackney - Chelsea Line, now known as Crossrail 2.

I think double ending to reverse at Morden is a good idea with a little alteration. With regards to the depot loop i think it was rejected by the council?

But what's really required is a forth road - 6 platform face. Shame the decision wasn't taken to cut into the side similar to Stanmore to allow space for this before they placed the UFO over the tracks. Also because of the supporting pillar for this UFO as i call it (staff accommodation) was stuck in the middle of platform 1 this has now made it unable to be used by the public.

You and i looking at it wouldn't see any huge problem but the Health & safety lot say it's too close the to platform edge and doesn't meet minimum space allowed. The doors can not be cut out, so after all the money spent on it it's useless.

Unless some serious decision making is made about the Northern i think overcrowding and service problems will remain for decades.