Rolling stock on the ELL

[Deleted]

Have the A60's and the 38's been the only rolling stock that have been used on the ELL?

It was mentioned in the ELL/District DVD that the 38's were used until 1977 but I was wondering if any other stock was used.

[Chris M]

See the "What ran when" thread on this board (currently four below this one)
districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=ell&action=display&thread=1135640574

Chris

[Deleted]

Cheers Chris,

I was wondering what stock was used. I used to think it was something like the R's or CO/CP's.

[silverbaz]

I have heard a rumour that our 4 Jops (Class 458) on SWT might well be refurbed and used on the ELL when the extensions open. To me it would make sense as we only use about 6 units a day monday to friday on the Reading line.
It would also be cost effective as they are only a few years old and a refurb would cost a lot less than new builds.

[ikar]

They will be going to operated by 458's because the ELL will be more NR than LUL. 458's currently don't work except 2-3 Reading diagrams covering for 450's. Two 458's are with GatEx now (8001, 8002), and the deal for the to go to Scotland (suplementing 334's) wont happen because there's a big cost for a conversation to AC. So they'll be probably kept some time by SWT untill more 450's come.

[Deleted]

uk.railway's favourite railway mag (Issue 534) has an article on the 458s and their use on the ELL; the article states that refurbishment would consist mostly of re-liverying and the radical reconfiguration of the interior seating layout, transforming the 458s from JOPs (Juniper Outer-suburban Porterbrook), to, in my mind, JEPs (Juniper East-london Porterbrook).

[Phil]

458s are under consideration but they will need a MAJOR rebuild to make them suitable for inner-urban services.

However since the specification calls for 'new' trains to be introduced, rebuilt 458s are a darn sight cheaper than new build, and with the advantage that nobody can think what to do with them in the meantime! Current leasers would be glad to get shot of them.

[edb]

Are they really that terrible?

[Deleted]

A Southern Region fan once said that the Alstom Onyx traction package is actually quite good - it was all the ancillary junk like the guard controls, the PAs, the PTIs, the DVAs and so on that kept breaking at the fall of a feather.

Apparently Phil was right though - a closer look at the article states that not only will internal reconfiguration be needed, but that the suspension and bogies will need work too to allow them to handle the massive loadings they will be expected to have.

[Phil]

Yes, the major problem seems to have been that the 458s were designed for OPO and when the unions objected and guard-to-driver communication was installed, it screwed up the TMS. If used it would shut down the train for 3mins before it could be rebooted! Not an Alstom fault originally, but something almost impossible to cure (it STILL happens at times apparently).

[Dmitri]

rbruce1314 said:

If used it would shut down the train for 3mins before it could be rebooted!

3 mins to reboot a train... almost makes me moan about the 'good old times' ...

[Chris W]

Gents

I apologise if I'm being a little premature here but am I right in thinking that there is talk/plans to also extend the ELL South West to Croydon to meet up with the tramlink? (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

If so another change in rolling stock would be needed in the (far distant probably) future.....

As both tube and surface line stock have served the line what would be best suited both in the short & long term!!!

Regards

Christopher

[Deleted]

rbruce1314 said:

458s are under consideration but they will need a MAJOR rebuild to make them suitable for inner-urban services.

However since the specification calls for 'new' trains to be introduced, rebuilt 458s are a darn sight cheaper than new build, and with the advantage that nobody can think what to do with them in the meantime! Current leasers would be glad to get shot of them.

Not only would refurbishing the Junipers be cheaper, but there would also be more trains available compared to a new build.

[swt458]

The 458s may not leave SWT!!

I was informed that:
'only when the 17 new class 450 trains arrive with SWT will a decision be made as to the returning of the class 458 stock to its original owners'.

I do wonder however as many attempts have been made to rid SWT of 458s however all have failed. This is the most radical of changes to the 458s diagrams since they were first decided 'un-satisfactory and to be returned'

I however believe they have come to be more reliable than the class 450 desiro stock since the times when they suffered such terrible faults... Anyone who is advanced in knowledge of the class 458 stock or works with it, please do correct me on that if necessary

I do hope the 458s are put onto the ELL. It would certainly be much more interesting to see them on there

Thanks

swt458

[thc]

They're just not suitable for ELL working, what with aircon, toilets and only two double-doors per car side. Added to this Ken is looking to combine the ELL order with new units for North London Railways. 458s on the ELL are but a gricer's dream.

THC

[Ben]

Heres a question; has a 'c' stock ever been down there for any reason?

[marty]

nope, not that I know, but "D" Stock has.