signal and train problem @ west hampstead

[Deleted]

I came down the steps at west hampstead and noticed a southbound train about two cars out of the station doors shut and loads of people waiting on the platform.
I walked down the platform and saw the driver poking his head out the offside drivers door, about 4 CSA's walked up and down a few times the signal was at danger and I thought the train op had overshot the platform (by alot!) then I realised it moved off then stopped.
a tannoy came on saying signal problems I am not sure what happened when it tried to leave, was it tripped?
then CSA's came on the track a whistle and the train was of at about 10 mph can anyone explain what happened fully?

btw luckily I had my camera on me, so a vid will go on youtube

[astock5000]

Could it have been a SPAD?

[Deleted]

nah a member staff said it was a technical problem with the signal

[astock5000]

Maybe it was a broken trainstop.

[Deleted]

sounds like a SPAD they do report them as "signalling problems"

[superteacher]

Presumably, if there was a signalling problem, the train would have been held at the station starter.
From the location of the train as described, it does sound like the train was tripped at the station starter. If there was a problem with the trainstop, the signal would have been red anyway, so that would still be classed as a SPAD if passed.
Yes, they do report SPAD's as "signalling problems" or "defective trains". They are hardly likely to tell the truth!

[glasgowdriver]

at station i work at there was a problem with a signal and trainstop and trains were getting tripped and trains were needing to be giving the right to depart.
as for the train leaving at 10mph this is what is knowing as applying the rule the train travels at this speed until it has passed the next signal which is showing a clear aspect (correct me if i am wrong)
if it was a spad it would not have been csa's that assisted the driver it would have been a supervisor and he would have been set back behind the signal.

[Colin]

I couldn't possibly comment on the initial incident as I wasn't there and I can think of several scenarios that would fit the bill - I don't see the point in speculating; however, there are several things in Mitcham's post which caught my eye:

May 7, 2008 13:48:01 GMT @glasgowdriver said:

as for the train leaving at 10mph this is what is knowing as applying the rule the train travels at this speed until it has passed the next signal which is showing a clear aspect (correct me if i am wrong)

Indeed I shall!! ;D ;D When drivers 'apply the rule', they will not resume normal line speed until they have passed two consecutive stop signals showing a proceed aspect.

May 7, 2008 13:48:01 GMT @glasgowdriver said:

he would have been set back behind the signal.

That's completely wrong! There is no such thing as setting back anymore - the closest option is a wrong direction movement. In any case, a wrong direction movement is only one of a number of options following a SPAD and is therefore by no means an automatic reaction.

It all depends on the type of signal (auto or semi), type of area (platform, points, etc) and other circumstances (last train, wrong route, time of day, location of other trains in the area, etc) - each SPAD is dealt with on it's own merits.

[c5]

May 7, 2008 13:48:01 GMT @glasgowdriver said:

at station i work at there was a problem with a signal and trainstop and trains were getting tripped and trains were needing to be giving the right to depart.
as for the train leaving at 10mph this is what is knowing as applying the rule the train travels at this speed until it has passed the next signal which is showing a clear aspect (correct me if i am wrong)
if it was a spad it would not have been csa's that assisted the driver it would have been a supervisor and he would have been set back behind the signal.

Not quite.

After passing a signal at danger, the train should be driven at a speed where the train could stop short of any obstruction. This is until two consecutive stop signals showing a clear or caution aspect have been passed.
As you know the trains are fitted with a slow speed circuit, though this [obviously] does not know the distances involved and goes on time!

If the SPAD involves an automatic signal then a Station Assistant can be involved in a Platform/Train Interface capacity.
The only role that a Station Supervisor or Operating Official would play would be to check that the Train Operator is fit to continue. If a Semi Automatic signal is involved then the only people allowed to authorise the Train Operator are a Station Supervisor or Operating Official under the Instruction of the Service Operator or Service Controller depending on the line and local arrangements.

If the SPAD happened at a signal with plain line, then there is no need to set the train back (via a properly protected Wrong Direction Move of course! )- only if there are points in advance of the signal!

[glasgowdriver]

ah thanks for that guys just the 2 incidents we had at my station the supervisor got asked to go down with an sa (which was me) and talk to the driver yes the supervisor had to agree the driver was well enough to carry on (this was due to a signal problem at the previous station.)
and the other one was on the district line platform which was a semi-auto signal

sorry if i confussed anyone and thanks colin and bananaman

[Deleted]

Quick question (and sorry for hijacking the thread).

Would a train op still need to wait for 2 clear signals in an area of 4 aspect signalling? or would the double yellow allow the train op to continue at line speed?

[setttt]

May 7, 2008 17:49:35 GMT @centralsimon said:

Quick question (and sorry for hijacking the thread).

Would a train op still need to wait for 2 clear signals in an area of 4 aspect signalling? or would the double yellow allow the train op to continue at line speed?

Normal speed can be resumed after passing two consecutive stop signals displaying a proceed aspect, so yellow, double yellow or green are all acceptable in multi-aspect areas.