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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 11:23:58 GMT
I was on a 92 stock train on saturday which had no DVA/Door closing alarms. However, the Handset PA worked as the T/OP did make two announcements but this was on the whole of the 15 minute journey through central london. The front display said "White City" but was going completly the oposite direction!
The question I would like to ask is:
Should this unit realy have been defected? My reason for questioning it is that there was no door close alarms and no DVA, the T/OP also made little use of the PA. I was under the impression that guidelines stated that if the unit was in service, if the door alarms failed to sound then the T/OP was supposed to make a reasonable announcement to indicate that train doors were closing and were possible make station announcements if the DVA failed?
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 1, 2008 11:29:21 GMT
To be honest, that sounds brilliant.
(yes I know it's against the rules etc)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 11:38:23 GMT
Lets just say alot of people were caught out because they had no idea where they were and panickd when the train arrived at the station they wanted to get off at. Also nearly caught a few people in the doors too because there was no warning that they were closing and they aint exactly slow either them doors!!!
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 1, 2008 12:47:44 GMT
hmmm, fair enough... but I'm fed up with the number of announcements. If I get on a metro in foreign climes I make darn sure I know how many stops it is to my destination and count 'em off
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 14:58:55 GMT
Quite agree with your comments, do feel that again some people rely on others to much in telling them where they need to get off. Have frequently observed the general public not having a clue what they are doing because someone else has always done it for them! Modern technology can be a wonderful thing - but as with anything else, it has its limitations and drawbacks!
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 1, 2008 17:30:19 GMT
T/OP also made little use of the PA. It seems that a lot of drivers can't be bothered to make announcements. I was on the H&C on Friday (on train 222), and the DVA wasn't working. The driver never used the PA, not even at Liverpool Street, where passengers could have thought it was a Circle line train. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 20:55:11 GMT
Not sure about 92 stock, but for C and D stock we stay in service with no door chimes and a broken DVA, even though this means no destination display at all on D stock.
Announcements are then only made at interchanges, not every station - presumably to save the driver's voice!
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Post by mileendfan on Dec 1, 2008 21:42:44 GMT
Funny though, is'nt it, that for years and years (when I was growing up in the sixties and after) there were no door chimes etc and we all managed to board and alight correctly without being crushed in the doors.
Best wishes
Hugh
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Post by edb on Dec 1, 2008 21:53:51 GMT
On the Subject of these units falling apart (or not) i saw one today whose front, or back (depends where you're coming from) seems to be very shiny red and seemed to be lacking a lot of the usual duck tape... was i dreaming???
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Post by Chris M on Dec 1, 2008 22:40:03 GMT
Funny though, is'nt it, that for years and years (when I was growing up in the sixties and after) there were no door chimes etc and we all managed to board and alight correctly without being crushed in the doors. I expect that had a lot to do with the doors being controlled by guards. |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 1, 2008 22:56:31 GMT
On the Subject of these units falling apart (or not) i saw one today whose front, or back (depends where you're coming from) seems to be very shiny red and seemed to be lacking a lot of the usual duck tape... was i dreaming??? May have been 91171 - not long returned to service, after being involved in the Mile End derailment. |
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Post by mileendfan on Dec 1, 2008 22:59:18 GMT
Funny though, is'nt it, that for years and years (when I was growing up in the sixties and after) there were no door chimes etc and we all managed to board and alight correctly without being crushed in the doors. I expect that had a lot to do with the doors being controlled by guards. That's true, but I think I'm right in saying that when the Victoria line began service it had no door chimes either. Hugh |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 2, 2008 1:31:43 GMT
On the Subject of these units falling apart (or not) i saw one today whose front, or back (depends where you're coming from) seems to be very shiny red and seemed to be lacking a lot of the usual duck tape... was i dreaming??? May have been 91171 - not long returned to service, after being involved in the Mile End derailment. Puts the rest to shame, doesn't it? www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/3029308355/in/set-72157606550318131/ |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 2, 2008 18:29:01 GMT
I expect that had a lot to do with the doors being controlled by guards. That's true, but I think I'm right in saying that when the Victoria line began service it had no door chimes either. Hugh True - 1967 stock did not have chimes before its refurbishment. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 2, 2008 19:10:45 GMT
91171 actually looks pretty sharp. Maybe when the fleet is refurbed something will be done to cure all the defects?
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Post by superteacher on Dec 2, 2008 20:19:47 GMT
They are still toying with the idea of replacing the 1992 stock with a new fleet - the trains are nearing half life anyway, and they need a LOT of money spending on them to replace the motors.
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Post by edb on Dec 2, 2008 22:11:50 GMT
They are still toying with the idea of replacing the 1992 stock with a new fleet - the trains are nearing half life anyway, and they need a LOT of money spending on them to replace the motors. I thought they were actually in the proceses of replacing them now? |
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Post by superteacher on Dec 2, 2008 23:09:19 GMT
They are still toying with the idea of replacing the 1992 stock with a new fleet - the trains are nearing half life anyway, and they need a LOT of money spending on them to replace the motors. I thought they were actually in the proceses of replacing them now? No, it's just a discussion. They put out tender invitations to replace all the DC motors with AC replacements. That's a massive job, since it will mean replacing lots of related equipment. With trains that are near half life, and coupled with the fact that they are in poor condition, they may just bite the bullet and replace them. |
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Post by slugabed on Dec 2, 2008 23:35:32 GMT
Hugh[/quote]
True - 1967 stock did not have chimes before its refurbishment.[/quote]
I seem to remember door warnings coming in sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. Someone can set the record straight.
No on-train PA announcements either.
The tube was quieter then,the loudest sound on a winter sunday morning in Richmond being the whine of the R-stock.
Now what made that noise?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 3, 2008 2:29:05 GMT
An additional winding for AC on the MG set. Was apparently very reliable, but had the whine so wasn't repeated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 8:13:40 GMT
Quite agree with your comments, do feel that again some people rely on others to much in telling them where they need to get off. Have frequently observed the general public not having a clue what they are doing because someone else has always done it for them! Modern technology can be a wonderful thing - but as with anything else, it has its limitations and drawbacks! You are absolutely spot on here. I never needed to be told where to get off a train or where to change etc. when I was growing up (7 years onwards on my own on the underground) let alone as a supposedly sane adult. The lack of announcements made no difference to me and I never ever caught the wrong train or missed a stop, apart from once when I was a bit worse for wear and nodded off, nearly ending up in Ruislip depot following a planned short hop from Loughton to Woodford one Christmas Eve! ;D Take away the announcements, save a few hundred thousand quid, and people will soon learn to pay attention to their surroundings again. They'll have to! Cheers Rich |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 3, 2008 10:48:22 GMT
That's all very well if you can see your surroundings, not so if you're blind or visually impaired.
With modern technology it should be possible to have announcements broadcast on a radio channel or induction loop that people could tune into and listen on headphones if they wanted. However this would be difficult to set up and not everybody would have/remember/want to use/be able to use it, it may also not be reliable.
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Post by mcmaddog on Dec 3, 2008 13:06:25 GMT
Perhaps though it would be better not to have blind people totally relying on potentially incorrect information. Whilst the tube is generally accurate, the brand new iBus spends half its time switched off, announcing the next bus stop before its reached the previous one, announcing random bus stops and announcing the destination as the one for the opposite direction!
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Post by superteacher on Dec 3, 2008 18:08:40 GMT
True - 1967 stock did not have chimes before its refurbishment.[/quote] I seem to remember door warnings coming in sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. Someone can set the record straight. No on-train PA announcements either. The tube was quieter then,the loudest sound on a winter sunday morning in Richmond being the whine of the R-stock. Now what made that noise?[/quote] Yes, was early 90's - C stock refurb, I think, was the 1st to have the chimes on a big scale. Some stocks did have PA announcements before then - I believe that the 1967 stock was the first stock to have them from new. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 14:27:36 GMT
Admittedly 92 stock aren't very well made at all, but I still maintain that in terms of saloon design they are the best of all the tube stocks currently in service. What's the problem with the motors on them btw? It must be something to do with reliability or maintenance because 92s aren't exactly slow, the sound they make is pretty swish too  |
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Post by metman on Dec 6, 2008 16:24:21 GMT
If the 1992ts does get replaced perhaps they could be used elsewhere? Making them 7 cars for the Bakerloo would be quite tricky tho.
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Post by edb on Dec 6, 2008 16:30:39 GMT
If the stock were replaced would it improve journey times on the line?? It's surely slower than designed as the trains are limted after some of the motors fell off, perhaps with a new design they could engineer a train that could cope with it's designed performance characteristics??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 16:36:21 GMT
92s may be limited but they're still pretty brisk, much more than 95/96s in my experience anyway. I doubt that they would be re-used if they were replaced on the Central, you'd probably have a similar situation to the 83s on the Jubilee, i.e. too expensive to do anything with them.
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Post by superteacher on Dec 6, 2008 20:59:01 GMT
They could be used in 6 car formation elsewhere, and converted so they could run in full speed manual without ATP. Won't happen though.
The 95 / 96 stock are currently limited in terms of performance. This will be rectified when the lines on which they run are resignalled.
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Post by cetacean on Dec 6, 2008 23:48:06 GMT
What's the problem with the motors on them btw? It must be something to do with reliability or maintenance because 92s aren't exactly slow, the sound they make is pretty swish too Flashovers leading to a large number of trains unavailable for service. They put out a tender asking for contractors to put a price on replacing the traction equipment from scratch, although I don't know what response they got. |
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