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Post by North End on Jan 15, 2021 23:51:39 GMT
I was recently asked a question about the various Northern Heights lines which I couldn’t find an answer to, so here goes.
Obviously the Highgate to High Barnet and Mill Hill East section of GNR would have had its ownership transferred to LPTB (or successors) at some point. However what happened to the remaining sections, Mill Hill East to Edgware, and Finsbury Park to Alexandra Palace? Were these ever transferred to LT ownership, or did they remain owned by BR until closure and the land being ultimately disposed off (mainly sold to local councils)? If so, what were the boundaries?
It appears that today LU owns the two pairs of Highgate tunnels, and the trackbed up to the approach to Cranley Gardens. Also it appears LT allocated bridge numbers for all of this network, were they ever officially used or carried? As an aside, were bridge numbers ever allocated to the Edgware to Bushey Heath Line?
Any thoughts would be appreciated, I’ve done some reading but so far anything on these topics is rather vague.
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Post by North End on Jan 1, 2021 14:09:39 GMT
I think there’s a good chance it won’t return, and to be honest if that’s the case it will be one of the few good things to come out of the whole Covid saga. While it may seem like a good thing as it was an operational headache from an internal perspective, as someone who worked random hours in central London, and as someone with friends scattered around East and West London it was an extremely useful service to me as a customer both for commuting and leisure. While it may be slower to return, I expect now it's been shown to be possible as pent-up nightlife desires emerge in the summer I don't see it how the Mayor (whoever it may be) would want to end the service provision. I don’t think it will be a case of wanting to end it, more a case that it’s simply going to be sufficiently far down the priority list that it’s not going to prove viable to reinstate it. After all, London managed quite happily for how many years without it?
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Post by North End on Jan 1, 2021 11:46:47 GMT
Have to explain 40%. If they are working 5 hours they do not need a meal relief and if only 2 days a week then as part timers I would have thought the most productive staff of all. Station staff working 12 hour Sundays needed two meal reliefs so stations were left unmanned. That's what happened in my day. Maybe all changed? The 40% was a rough way of saying that you are getting 2 days worth of productive work out of a night tube driver, compared to 5 days for a full timer. Yet the fixed costs of recruiting, training and maintaining a driver remain essentially the same, and perhaps even more importantly (for the time being at least) the training resource used is the same, and this is an area of the business which is going to be under great pressure as the training backlog is immense, and continuing to build. As has been noted by another poster, one can also add relative passenger numbers to that.
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Post by North End on Jan 1, 2021 11:44:45 GMT
Have to explain 40%. If they are working 5 hours they do not need a meal relief and if only 2 days a week then as part timers I would have thought the most productive staff of all. Station staff working 12 hour Sundays needed two meal reliefs so stations were left unmanned. That's what happened in my day. Maybe all changed? The 40% was a rough way of saying that you are getting 2 days worth of productive work out of a night tube driver, compared to 5 days for a full timer.
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Post by North End on Dec 31, 2020 23:28:55 GMT
I don't think we'll see a return of the night tube in 2021, and quite possibly never (at least in the form it was immediately prior to suspension). AIUI it was losing a lot of money and was a headache operationally. I think the killer blow for night tube is the training backlog. With little training having taken place through 2020, and as I write this it’s recently been suspended again with no resumption in sight, this leaves a massive backlog, worse in some places than others. Meanwhile finances are tight, so can it really be justified to devote training resources to people who at the end of their training will only carry out 40% of the productive work compared to a full-time driver? This does of course assume there won’t be mass service cuts across the day on all the lines, though again night tube is likely to be low down on the priority list. I think there’s a good chance it won’t return, and to be honest if that’s the case it will be one of the few good things to come out of the whole Covid saga.
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Post by North End on Dec 23, 2020 14:07:48 GMT
You can have as many or as few train side staff as you like, but with no control staff you’re not running anything. This is where the big problem is now occurring. The Bakerloo has no night Controller cover this week with early shut downs and late start ups occurring yesterday, today and tomorrow. Other control centres, signalling centres and signal cabins are at similar risk and it is largely down to staff good will that this has not yet occurred. I find it interesting how the same tub thumping is never head from control staff as it is from train side. To be fair, service control is a completely different beast, just like stations and trains have their differences. Control staff generally get what they want, which by the same token does tend to mean there’s a stronger culture of co-operative goodwill. Covid has certainly penetrated at least one control room, there’s certainly bound to be implications if that trend continues.
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Post by North End on Nov 25, 2020 13:53:36 GMT
I am delighted to read this - although to be honest it was not unexpected. I am curious about their comments to cosmetically restore it to London Transport condition. Will they revert to light bulb internal lighting and a suitable LT seat fabric? Maybe it would be better to recognise its second life and restore it to 1990s Network SouthEast condition, albeit with LED tube lights as these offer longer life and less battery drain. There is already a preserved 1938ts train in LT condition, plus the DM at the London Transport Museum at Covent Garden is invaluable making it possible for non-passengers to sample what these trains are like internally. I would wish though that visitors could also sample the closely spaced transverse seats - even if only just one of these seat bays was available (to minimise wear & tear and prevent visitors from using seats as foot rests). As a schoolboy I had no problem using these seats, but as an adult I'm glad that this seating configuration no longer exists! I’d be quite happy for it to be restored to 1990 condition, or to be honest even maintained as is - both these interiors are quite agreeable IMO. Having had a complete second life as a class 483, both in terms of years and daily use (30 years is a decent life for any train, let alone one which was already 50 years old at the time), preserving it as a class 483 is not a bad outcome at all, in fact I’d say it’s preferable. If we want to preserve an authentic Tube train, focussing on either 1959/62 stock, or the Aldwych 72 stock (if it should become available) IMO are the way to go. These are already in original condition, and to be honest are more relevant to people now, as declining numbers of people will have experienced a 38 stock in original condition nowadays. Likewise it’s already represented by the LT Museum’s train. Much as I love the 483s and want to see them all saved, from a practical point of view they’re actually quite poor candidates for preservation - they’re twice as old as pretty much anything that’s ever passed into preservation and have had a full intensive workload for all that time (okay the IOW isn’t *that* demanding, but it’s still a complete day of duty from first thing in the morning to last thing at night), and in the seaside environment which isn’t wonderful for the bodywork. Furthermore they’ve had quite a few changes since LU days. I’d have hoped the IOW Steam Railway might take a couple of units - a 4-car train would work quite nicely on there for occasional events if they could find a way of working it hauled by something else. Just my thoughts...
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Post by North End on Nov 23, 2020 14:31:29 GMT
I'd be surprised if hunting was as large an issue on LU though, due to the lower speeds generally - unless LU treads have a greater conicity than your typical mainline stock? I don't know about LU, but the DLR does suffer from quite bad hunting on the higher speed sections and I believe this is due to the wheel profiles used to negotiate the very tight corners on the system. I couldn't say whether that's increased conicty or some other aspect of the profile though. This is exactly it - there’s a trade-off between wear and riding qualities on sharp curves versus hunting on straight sections. LU seems to go for the former, which is quite plain to see when one sees the way LU trains generally negotiate curves roughly. Used to be very bad on DLR, though seems to have improved, though I don’t use DLR much these days so others may know better on that!
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Post by North End on Nov 10, 2020 23:20:15 GMT
So in light of the moderation and to bring this vaguely back on track... is there any viable scheme that would deliver automation up to the level of, let alone beyond, the DLR on any underground line before 2050? W&C should be possible to do something with but may no longer be worth the faff... Most should surely be able to achieve what exists on the DLR with some effort; maybe maintaining the very high frequencies would become more problematic but that seems more an issue of how long it takes people to get on and off a train rather than running a train now. If we compare the massive advances in automated driving for cars, the railway is a much more controlled environment than the roads are so surely this can also feed in? However having an operator-free train seems a very unlikely proposition to me. DLR style could probably be achieved now on the Jubilee and Northern lines. The question is whether you would want to. You’d could remove the J door and for four seats in there, change the TBC so it fits in a lockable cabinet, reconfigure all the cab buttons so they fit in cabinets like on the DLR, and fit door control panels and start buttons at each doorway. This still leaves the issue as to whether it’s safe to have a train entering a platform without a driver on the front without PEDs, and introduces some big problems over door procedures as there are a lot more doorways than on a DLR train, so one has to question whether it’s a safety improvement to have a member of staff standing in a doorway rather than in a non-distracted cab looking at specially designed camera views. Then there’s the issue over how realistic it is for the member of staff to reach the front on a crowded tube-sized train where there’s no side walkway in the tunnels. In short yes it’s possible, but I can’t for the life of me think why anyone would want to do it, save as a political vanity project.
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Post by North End on Nov 5, 2020 12:21:46 GMT
Was there a similar Incident, minus the Whale, at High Barnet years ago, somewhere around the 1960's I can think of several such incidents, at Stourbridge Town, at Shepperton, at Largs and at the original Island Gardens DLR station. But at High Barnet the ground rises steeply beyond the station, so it is unlikely that an over-run would get very far. The quoted incident involved the shunt neck for the sidings, which finishes above a quite steep drop to the Great North Road below.
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Post by North End on Nov 1, 2020 16:14:52 GMT
Khan was on BBC news channel saying the government wanted to take away free travel for the over 60's. He did not add or clarify that statement. A politicians answer to create mischief. Many other people have already said that. 'Think tanks' have been on at the government to reduce pensioner's benefits for years. I suspect that you just don't like Sadiq Khan and are trying to score a political point yourself. Without getting into the politics of it, there’s certainly a case for thinking about whether pensioner travel perks can be justified in the current and changing climate. Whilst “poor pensioners” was a theme in the 1990s, nowadays it seems the opposite applies, and it’s younger people more in need of a squeeze.
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Post by North End on Oct 26, 2020 19:59:27 GMT
GoA 0 On-sight; Similar to a tram running in street traffic GoA 1 Manual; A train driver controls starting and stopping, operation of doors and handling of emergencies or sudden diversions. GoA 2 Semi-automatic (STO); Starting and stopping are automated, but a driver operates the doors, drives the train if needed and handles emergencies. As used on Victoria, Central, Northern, Jubilee and parts of Sub Surface Lines GoA 3 Driverless (DTO); Starting and stopping are automated, but a train attendant operates the doors and drives the train in case of emergencies. As used on DLR GoA 4 Unattended train operation (UTO); Starting and stopping, operation of doors and handling of emergencies are all fully automated without any on-train staff I've got the full 26-page document available on a PDF through the ASLEF Central East WhatsApp, I'll have a read at some point. Page 14, TfL have decided that GoA4 wouldn't work so it would have GoA3 with Train Attendants like the DLR. So like the DLR those TAs would be able to join a union (probably RMT) and go on strike if they chose to. And GOA3 doesn’t allow the abolition of duty schedules, which is one of the potential prizes which can be won from trying to increase automation. It may allow some simplifying, but ultimately you still have to have a name in a numbered box, and a body on every train - just like today.
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Post by North End on Oct 19, 2020 2:22:11 GMT
I thought the point of renewing the points at West Hampstead was to ease the speed restriction over them. Also those centre sidings (inc. Willesden Green and Wembley Park) once accepted 8-car Met trains when required. Has any member recent experience of the speed into Archway siding? Is it done in TBTC or manual driving? What is the overrun length like at the far end? This was once a 12-car overrun siding when the line terminus. The extension took a new route to leave the current siding. Financial economies may not permit a new track layout at East Finchley, and perhaps Archway plus Finchley Central will have to do instead. Been a long time, but if my memory is right it’s 10 mph into Archway, and there is some space beyond the stopping position, perhaps a couple of cars lengths (there’s certainly more room than Tooting Broadway which is extremely tight). As with all running sidings both ATO and PM are available. There was an issue that the stopping mark was in the wrong place for TBTC, but I presume this has long been sorted.
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Post by North End on Oct 18, 2020 0:26:17 GMT
Closing up using the porter buttons is the result of the Liverpool Street incident some years ago. Kennington Loop is the exception, and this seems to be a case of corporate memory loss, as it’s really no different to Liverpool Street in that someone could walk through the cars. Exactly. There are two issues here which are often confused: On a line equipped with fixed block signalling, you must not carry passengers over a route controlled by a shunt signal (without appropriate authority), due to the lesser standard of route locking which is provided. On any line, you must check that all passengers have alighted from a train being taken out of service, to prevent an overcarried passenger from panicking and trying to leave the train via the car end doors. There seems to be some further corporate memory loss when it comes to the ATP lines, as the general view amongst operating staff is that passengers can be carried over any route where the train has a TBTC target point. However (from conversations I’ve had!) the signal department seem to disagree, as their view is that the facing point locking is the same as it was under the old signalling, which seems to be confirmed by the fact that there’s an instruction that passengers must not be taken north from East Finchley platform 3, which used to be a shunt move. Obviously there’s now some of the newer procedures which blur all this.
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Post by North End on Oct 17, 2020 22:05:27 GMT
What is wrong with Finchley Central? Arrive at platform 1 or 2 depending on the destination of following train. Forward into the siding. Reverse to platform 3 and away. This assumes the siding is sufficiently long. There is nothing wrong with using Finchley Central to turn services. However it is a lot further out compared with turning services at Archway - simply put you should get more benefit to central area service levels by turning services nearer to the centre of town. Whilst they sometimes do that move to reverse services at Finchley Central, it seems Mill Hill is the preferred option as it avoids any potential delays to following services whilst detraining passengers in platforms at Finchley Central. I am pretty sure that a bit like travelling around the Kennington Loop - trains are not allowed to carry passengers over non-approved trackwork - so whilst I have no doubt that occasionally a sleeping passenger will making a brief visit to the siding leading toward Mill Hill - it is not officially allowed, hence turning trains at Finchley Central would require extra platform staff time to check carriages are empty and coach by coach close the doors using the porter buttons before such moves can commence. Closing up using the porter buttons is the result of the Liverpool Street incident some years ago. Kennington Loop is the exception, and this seems to be a case of corporate memory loss, as it’s really no different to Liverpool Street in that someone could walk through the cars.
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Post by North End on Oct 15, 2020 23:45:13 GMT
Will more than 30tph be required on any line post covid? I hope so .... I hope everything gets back to normal after covid. A grade separated junction is all very well, but it is timetabling the service integrations at Camden Town that are the actual restrictions super-high tph running. That is why the split is proposed, a necessary evil to satisfy the higher density service required Kennington - Morden and Bank branches. I agree it can't (or shouldn't) go ahead until Camden is rebuilt. I think more could be timetabled through Camden in theory, but the problem is that it would fall apart in practice when trains don’t present at exactly the right moment, or even worse not in the correct sequence. This then ends up with the junction not performing on the optimum way, which then pushes capacity down. Even now it’s quite important to focus on getting the service in the right order - just one Edgware-Kennington train running around 4 minutes late all day can cause a surprising amount of reactionary delay. Battersea might make this worse as it introduces an extra opportunity for trains to run out of order if some trains still reverse at Kennington. In an ideal world with the current setup we’d have everything go to Battersea with crews stepping back several trains to give scope for righting minor issues.
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Post by North End on Oct 15, 2020 23:17:33 GMT
TfL's CSR submission does include new stock for the Bakerloo, but a case still has to be made that the investment is the best use of that money. When the case for all four lines was drafted out, the Bakerloo didn't come up to scratch! The solution was to blend it with the Lewisham extension plans, since they must include a new fleet of trains to provide enough to interwork with the existing line. Now Lewisham fades into the distance, and the replacement fleet for current Bakerloo again stands alone. Last time the continual patching of the current fleet made more sense than a new fleet for such a short, relatively quiet line. Would there be enough of the 63 old Jubilee trains for the Bakerloo to get 36+? The Northern NLU2 wanted 17 more trains for 30tph on current service pattern, but CSR submission talks of line split for 30+tph. 36tph business case required 44 trains, and the lowest split option was 30 extra trains, so not enough for the Bakerloo. But assuming money for Camden station improved interchange is not available, the best no split service required 26 trains which leaves 37 for the Bakerloo. So it still remains a possibility in hard times! New trains for the Jubilee Line (1.9bn) + Northern Line splitting/Camden Town rebuild (£0.6-1.3bn) = (£2.5-3.2bn) New trains for the Bakerloo and Central (£1-2bn) Given the age of the 1972 stock, the lower overall cost and the current financial situation I think Bakerloo stands a much better chance of getting new trains than the Jubilee. There does need to be a realisation that the 72 stock is already quite likely to see 60 years in service, and there comes a point where old vehicles become troublesome no matter how much is spent on them. I run an old car which would be completely financially unviable if decisions were based on pure economics - reality is as it ages it has become increasingly troublesome even with reduced usage. The 72 stock was never the most highly regarded stock in the first place, though its continued reasonable performance does reflect some credit on it, and in those who maintain it. Much as personally I would love the 72 stock to go on forever, I think there may come a point where it becomes simply unviable. It will be interesting to see if it outlives the 92 stock though!
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Post by North End on Oct 2, 2020 21:20:01 GMT
Strange you should say that; I was thinking the same when reading the funding presentation! TfL's aims and objectives seem to be increasingly tied to political or social objectives rather than day to day service delivery, I do wonder if a new focus on service provision is needed. I’m sure it’s the first time a resignalling scheme (I presume that’s what they’re looking at for the Picc) has been tied to a number of homes. It’s farcical. A focus on delivery wouldn’t go amiss at all. Unfortunately I doubt that’s what we’ll see though. Just replacing one set of short-term political cycle objectives with another. As we see with how long the SSR resignalling has dragged on such projects tend to outlive political cycles just a bit! The difference in political party between mayor and government *could* work to LU’s advantage, even if only by accident rather than design. I remember an old-school service control manager (who is still around I think, in some form) once threw a working timetable on his desk and said pointedly “our role is to deliver this, not this”, pointing to some political-type paperwork that had arrived in his office. Some lines could do well to have a greater prevalence of such attitudes, something like the Central is a string of cancellations every day and has been like it for years now.
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Post by North End on Oct 2, 2020 21:00:04 GMT
[I don't see why this is the "last chance saloon", if responsibility for transport in London is taken away from TfL then it becomes the responsibility of the DfT, the Secretary of State for Transport and ultimately the Prime Minister. Much easier for the government to hand over the money and let the Mayor take the blame when things go wrong! Indeed, and there are historical parallels with a Conservative government stripping a powerful Labour local authority of their transport responsibilities to weaken them - Thatcher did it to Ken Livingstone's GLC in 1984. This might well be a last-chance saloon for TfL in its current guise, however, depending on what will there is within the Government to 'punish' the mayor. If done well it could be a positive thing. TFL has always been a political organisation rather than a transport one, and in my view hasn’t been all the better for it. How about a return to LT with just Underground, buses, and perhaps Overground / Crossrail? Being cynical I don’t think that’s what we’d get unfortunately. Instead we’re probably going to see more games played, at least until the mayoral election is out the way.
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Post by North End on Sept 24, 2020 22:49:19 GMT
They don't, London pays more tax to the Treasury than it takes out. We pay for your public transport and lots more besides Sadly this exchange sums up the funding issues across essential and emergency services in society... Intentional underfunding, results in representatives from equally deserving transport services, squabbling about money... #Divided&Conquered
Yes I don’t find all this helpful. London got Crossrail (after waiting for a few decades), but also runs the oldest trains on the mainland, as well as it’s fair share of older mainline stock, not all of which has replacements in the pipeline. Find me a London or south-east station which has a free car park...
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Post by North End on Sept 19, 2020 21:22:15 GMT
We don't do politics, that includes the relationship between unions and governments. Furthermore the history of the miners' strikes is off topic for this forum. Its a bit hard to separate this strike from politics when a government review into TfL's finances could result in management attempting to impose changes to our T&Cs and the Prime Minister publicly states that the Tube should "not be the prisoners of the unions". And if there are historically inaccurate comments on here then I am going to challenge them. It is unfortunately very difficult to fully sanitise politics from discussion relating to LU, as unfortunately the two are inextricably linked. It’s always been the case, but is even more the case with the mayoral link. If only the politicians would stay out of LU business, but unfortunately if anything were heading the other way on that.
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Post by North End on Sept 13, 2020 13:30:18 GMT
In the days of 1949TS UNDMs all drivers were trained to operate from shunting cabinets, as uncoupling and coupling was part of normal passenger services. These days, since they are only required within depots, is it only depot staff who are trained to use them? Back in the 1960s a normal method of dealing with a person under a train was to split the train at the nearest convenient point, to reduce the number of cars to be moved over the casualty before recovery. Current day Central line trains can be split into two-car units, but I suspect that would today require depot staff assistance since they are not regularly coupled and uncoupled out on the road. Can only speak for my area, however operating staff are trained on the shunting cabinets, but it’s a cursory “here’s what each button does” rather than a proper familiarisation with the chance to practice in anger. As such I’d say such staff aren’t really equipped with the familiarity to use them. Splitting trains at one unders is pretty unheard of now, I’ve not heard of it happening on my line in my time. Really there’s little to no need for it. Perhaps more of an issue on the sub-surface lines, but splitting an S stock is unfeasible anyway. There isn’t much point in training people on something that they will never do in anger and probably never need to. Even coupling trains is very much off the agenda nowadays, which is something I’d say is more of an issue (having personally had to do about 8 couple-ups in the last couple of years - it’s funny now being familiar with doing something leads to more being asked to do it!).
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Post by North End on Sept 4, 2020 13:20:56 GMT
After Robert Pattinson tests positive for coronavirus while filming The Batman, conspiracy theorists say it’s just further proof that masks don’t work. One doesn’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to say that masks don’t work. Various of our medical officers were on the record through the first half of the year saying the self-same thing, in fact going further any suggesting they may cause more harm than good. Having seen the amount of incorrect use, and seen first-hand how correct mask use is pretty much incompatible with an operational-type job like many LU roles, I can quite see why this was the view.
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Post by North End on Sept 4, 2020 13:17:27 GMT
There are a few news outlets today running with the story of developing a so called "First Ride Free" scheme to encourage greater use of the public transport network and hit home the fact that it is safe. This emulates to a lesser degree the approach taken by some governments on the continent who have issued free carnets to their citizens to help nudge them back onto sustainable transport. Thoughts? So once again it’s freebies for one particular subset of people. If it’s safe then there shouldn’t need to be free rides and the like. In any case the problem isn’t really leisure use, quite a bit of which has returned, but commuter use. Free rides aren’t going to encourage this to return when it’s primarily being driven by factors like home working. It doesn’t help that we just don’t seem to have a government which has any kind of medium-term strategy for where we go from here. The eat out scheme was about as tacky as it gets. A “let’s all get safely back to the office” scheme would be more beneficial IMO. There’s only so much loading up of trains with leisure passengers which is viable, especially now the school holidays are over and more and more people are (supposedly) returned to work. Normality is what we need.
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Post by North End on Sept 3, 2020 23:16:40 GMT
I went up to the City yesterday, Bank station is entry via Lombard Street/King William Street only (Exit 5 I believe) and exit via Mansion House Street/Princes Street (exit 1?), all the rest including the new "ticket hall" on Walbrook are closed. The gateline and lifts to the Northern Line are also closed so the only way into the station is via the escalator down to the Central Line (or via Monument obviously). There were six members of staff stood around the gateline with not much to do so it would appear that the closures of parts of the station hasn't reduced the minimum staffing level. Up on ground level the City is like a Sunday, hardly anyone around. By contrast up on the Euston Road the traffic was nose to tail. I was there last week, I walked from Liverpool Street station as I also wanted to visit Leadenhall Market. Much of Liverpool Street Underground station is closed, only one set of escalators to / from the Central line are in use, these being the ones which offer direct interchange with the subsurface trains. Bank junction area was only really alive because of passing buses and workmen making a hefty racket installing a bike lane that has caused Threadneedle Street to be closed in one direction - shoving many bus routes along other roads in the process. The Euston Road is always busy, after all its part of a designated ring route around the centre of central London. The new bike lanes have made a difficult situation even worse. Despite being advertised as temporary I saw bus stops being moved in ways that suggests that the plan is really about trying to deter traffic from using this route. Great, I say - but beware what you ask for as one of the side effects of this virus pandemic is that London is risking becoming a doughnut (or Polo Mint) city where people live and work around the outside and the middle dies. Maybe tourists will return and keep some areas alive but apart from that... re: the Dettol hand gel dispensers, I saw them in the ticket hall at Embankment yesterday (Weds 2nd Sept 20). There’s a million and one reasons why we need to get back to normal, and ultimately that has to include office workers. It’s rather depressing that we’re continuing to hear some pretty dubious reasons why office workers allegedly cannot return to work, one I heard on the news this morning which took the biscuit was “I can’t go to work as that means using public transport which adults shouldn’t use so school children can travel safely”.
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Post by North End on Sept 1, 2020 13:22:48 GMT
There have been some management changes at LU over the last year or so. Let’s hope this has a positive influence on things. It certainly can’t be worse than the bull-in-a-china-shop mentality the last few years have seen. Sadly the fact that both unions are about to declare a dispute suggests that the current crop of senior managers are just as obstinate, uncooperative and confrontational as those they have replaced Early days yet. To be fair the current management will have their hands tied in a way probably never seen before. Not saying you’re not right, however we will have to see how the next few months pan out. Personally I think threats of strike action are a little premature at this point, especially with little evidence of the commuter peaks returning at the moment. Certainly the comms coming out of the current senior team aren’t quite as belligerent as that from their predecessors.
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Post by North End on Aug 30, 2020 17:59:31 GMT
Perhaps going into problem solving mode, working with management to resolve the issues and without preconditions? Isn't that exactly what aslefshrugged said they wanted? But the management won't come to the table without pressure from the workforce. Virtually every time we have a 'possible strike situation' it seems to be because the management want to rule by diktat rather than behave like grownups and agreeing changes with those affected. There have been some management changes at LU over the last year or so. Let’s hope this has a positive influence on things. It certainly can’t be worse than the bull-in-a-china-shop mentality the last few years have seen.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Aug 29, 2020 16:39:35 GMT
I think the Aslef and the RMT are banking on ridership returning to normal after the furlough scheme ends; but will there be jobs to go back to. Civil servants working from home are not going back. Do the unions expect the government to make them go back. Private firms are also adapting. While ridership is low I think the government will ride out a strike and they have the majority to pass any laws they like; 2024 is a long way off. Labour governments usually keep Tory union laws. The underground will use natural wastage to reduce Sunday services; after all where is there to go? Covid has burst the London bubble. Property prices inflated by Hong Kong money as it was thirty years ago by Russian and Hong Kong money looking for a safe haven. Hong Kong money is also buying property in the North of England as better value. ASLEF and RMT aren't "banking" on anything, passenger numbers are irrelevant. We're doing exactly the same job as we were before lockdown and see no reason why our jobs are worth less than they were 6 months ago As yet there are no plans for strikes, we're simply balloting so that we can call a strike if management try to impose changes. The only Labour government to continue Tory union laws was Blair/Brown, the Labour government of Wilson/Callaghan famously used to invite the unions to 10 Downing Street for negotiations over "beer and sandwiches". Where to go? The shops are open, the pubs are open, the restaurants are open, the the museums are open, the galleries are open, even the zoo is open. And there's very few tourists so there's never been a better time for the "natives" to visit London. House prices in London are up 4.3% since May and August has been the busiest month for ten years. I do think there’s some complacency there. Whilst I don’t disagree in principle, the unions will have reduced clout at the moment as the economic damage from an LU strike would be less than in normal times, simply because there are fewer people travelling and therefore quite simply fewer people to be disrupted. That’s not to say that a strike would be desirable, however there’s no doubt that at this time it would be easier to ride out.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Aug 29, 2020 16:34:19 GMT
I've travelled to Euston and back this afternoon and it was only slightly quieter than a normal Saturday this time of year would be. The DLR was full and standing with every available seat taken (the areas for staff take out 16 seats and two vestibules per train). When the tourists come back it will be back to very near normal on weekends. It seems clear that those who are talking about a collapse in ridership in public transport are the ones who are not themselves using public transport. Those of us who are looking at what the evidence actually is are not seeing any collapse. It depends when and where. There’s clearly a lot of leisure use returned, however if you were to go to somewhere like Kennington or Stockwell at 1800 on a weekday, where normally every southbound train would be leaving totally crush loaded, you’ll now find there are more seats than passengers. I gather same applies going north in the morning peak, where normally trains at places like Clapham North would be unboardable. The significance of all this is a matter for debate, those crush loaded peak trains are a headache in that creating extra capacity just for a short period each day is extremely costly, but equally peak hours must bring in revenue simply because of the numbers being carried, in many cases on more expensive fares too. There certainly needs to be some memory of the 1980s, and in particular the lesson of having cut capacity out of the system (eg those single-leaf doors on 83 stock) and then found demand picked up again. Same goes for the amount of works required on the DLR over the years - too small even before it opened.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
Posts: 1,769
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Post by North End on Aug 21, 2020 15:01:13 GMT
If the roads in Central London are back to pre COVID-19 levels it is likely the higher £15 congestion charge will remain or be further increased. It seems the DLR is carrying more people now than the other lines. I went up the West End last week, early afternoon, the roads are nowhere near pre-Covid 19 levels, I was actually able to cross parts of the Marble Arch junction without having to wait for the "green man"! Depends when and where one is. I’d say the suburbs are back to normal levels at many times of day, indeed the eat out days I’d say are busier than normal especially in the evenings. Central London is undoubtedly a bit quieter, though the last few weeks have seen things pick up. City of London is still very dead. The big thing is there still isn’t much of a morning peak. I’d expect that to change when the schools return. One way or other there’s certainly been a return to things like traffic jams in the last couple of weeks. I’ve been driving in more often recently for a number of reasons, and been held up a number of times recently, which was naturally unheard of back in April, May and June - and indeed would be very rare on a normal weekday at the times in question. It’s tended to be for silly reasons too - a KFC drive-through queue blocking back onto a major roundabout was one such reason!
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