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Post by 21146 on Apr 28, 2009 9:05:47 GMT
The 30th anniversary of Stage 1 of the Jubilee Line prompted me to carry out a photo survey of Charing Cross station - the old Strand and Trafalgar Square stations, plus the new Jubilee Line platforms which helped link it all together (and which you can't get to anymore). The station finishes are so much of their time, the lime green 'Strand' ticket hall and the smaller blue 'Trafalgar Square' companion, both with extensive use of bright GRP finishes (though toned down from original IIRC). The Jubilee Line platforms in green with a monochrome "Nelson's Column" seating area motif (and too many pigeon's for Ken's liking I bet!), the Bakerloo Line with depictions of work held in the National Portrait Gallery, and the Northern Line's David Gentleman's "A Cross for Queen Eleanor". These must have seemed controversial at the time, yet now most passengers pass them without giving a second look. I doubt we'll see the like again now that "themed" station design has given way to plain white "bathroom" tiles on present-day refurbs. It was a real trip down memory lane to re-appraise all this yesterday. I've uploaded some of the better results here*: www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/page1/www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/page2/www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/page3/www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/page4/www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/page5/Enjoy! * Note: the page numbers on these links will only be in sync until new material is added. PS - pages 4 & 5 for the disused bits! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 13:11:54 GMT
Fantastic pictures! Really enjoyed the views of the Jubilee line section.  |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 28, 2009 14:58:14 GMT
I remember 30 years ago when the Jubilee Line opened and it all seemed a bit of a let down. Unlike the previous Victoria Line, 80% of it was already in existence. Sure, the Victoria Line was opened in stages, with only a short part on day 1, but the route to Victoria was secured, financed and well on the way to being finished, whereas Stage 2 of the Fleet - sorry, Jubilee Line, out east towards the city, docklands and Thamesmead was just a dream in LT's, and Horace Cutler's eye. And it seemed (to me) that whilst the Stanmore Line gained a direct route via Bond Street and Green Park to Charing Cross, they also lost a much longer through service to Elephant & Castle at the same time. Ditto in reverse, where Bakerloo stations south of Baker Street now only had NB services to Harrow & Wealdstone/Watford Junction. I wondered why both lines couldn't have been combined in the style of the Northern Line, not realising this would be an operational nightmare, but however would allow diversions in an emergency instead of a complete shutdown (as today). Nor were the trains new, but rather recycled 1972's off the Northern Line and to all intents and purposes no advance on the Victoria Line's stock (in fact retrograde being neither OPO or ATO!). Even LT seemed less than proud of its new creation, as whilst there was a mass of printed material published for the Victoria Line, very little was produced for the Jubilee. The 'commemorative' booklet was a thin landscape paperback, whilst the 'quaility' hardback issued in association with the changes was all about David Gentlemen's woodcut decoration "A Cross for Queen Eleanor", which had absolutely nothing to do with the Jubilee, being installed on the Northern Line platforms at Charing Cross. Very late in the day, a Jubilee Line motif was devised combining an all-red LT roundel and a silver crown, but again this never had the widespread application of the Victoria Line 'V' symbol, which had made it onto train headboards, books, leaflets and even staff ties. The best part were the new or refurbished platforms between Baker Street and Charing Cross which were classic examples of the LT Design Research Unit (DRU) principles and a sort of updated, more colourful, version of the Victoria Line style.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 28, 2009 16:01:03 GMT
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Post by 21146 on Apr 28, 2009 16:13:53 GMT
Complete with a train pictured in High Barnet sidings! |
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Post by Tubeboy on Apr 28, 2009 17:32:50 GMT
I received an internal email at work last week [as did all Jubilee staff] detailing the "events" that are happening later in the year to celebrate the 30th anniversary, as well as the 10th anniversary of the JLE. Most of the events seem to be charity collections, and community art events. Staff will get IIRC a wallet or something similar. Super!  |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 28, 2009 17:58:48 GMT
I received an internal email at work last week [as did all Jubilee staff] detailing the "events" that are happening later in the year to celebrate the 30th anniversary, as well as the 10th anniversary of the JLE. Most of the events seem to be charity collections, and community art events. Staff will get IIRC a wallet or something similar. Super! Sounds as "exciting" as the Bakerloo, Piccadilly, and Northern (staff only) centenary celebrations in recent years. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Apr 28, 2009 18:55:08 GMT
At least they got a mug!  Whereas we are being treated like mugs. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 23:17:54 GMT
At least they got a mug! Whereas we are being treated like mugs. If the Jubilee got a mug, I can see it now: Thanks for the effort over the last 30 years. NOW TRY HARDER. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 18:43:49 GMT
Nor were the trains new, but rather recycled 1972's off the Northern Line and to all intents and purposes no advance on the Victoria Line's stock (in fact retrograde being neither OPO or ATO!). That's not quite the case. I think the Jubilee Line opened with 1972 mk2 stock - which was ATO-ready (for the type of ATO used on the Victoria line), with a view to the eventual conversion of the line to ATO. Sadly, this never happened with the 1972mk2. Perhaps if the original "phase 2" of the project had gone ahead, it may have been ATO'd using the 1972mk2? Come to think of it, was the 1983 stock ATO-possible? |
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 29, 2009 18:50:19 GMT
That's not quite the case. The Jubilee Line opened with 1972 mk2 stock - which was ATO-ready (for the type of ATO used on the Victoria line) with a view to the eventual conversion of the line to ATO. Sadly, this never happened with the 1972mk2. If the Mk2s were "ATO-ready", then why weren't some of them converted for the Victoria instead of 72TS Mk1s when the Victoria line needed extra trains in the late 1980s, with some Mk1s moving from the Northern to the Bakerloo? Then there could have been more double ended 67/72TS units on the Vic. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 18:58:10 GMT
If the Mk2s were "ATO-ready", then why weren't some of them converted for the Victoria instead of 72TS Mk1s when the Victoria line needed extra trains in the late 1980s, with some Mk1s moving from the Northern to the Bakerloo? Then there could have been more double ended 67/72TS units on the Vic. good question. At one point I think it was on the cards . I can remember seeing posters (sort of "transport facts & news" educational-type things) in my school about just such a plan, in fact, duringt he mid 1980s. Maybe this was scuppered by the OPO-ing of the Bakerloo - thus necessitating the transfer of the 1972mk2s to the Bakerloo instead?  |
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 29, 2009 19:04:17 GMT
A few 72TS Mk1s were converted to OPO when the Bekerloo needed extra trains, so why couldn't more of them have been converted?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 19:09:30 GMT
A few 72TS Mk1s were converted to OPO when the Bekerloo needed extra trains, so why couldn't more of them have been converted? Again, very good question. It surely would have made sense for the 1972mk2 stocks to go straight to the Victoria whereby they could have been used as they were without the issues of the non-ATO cabs of the 1972mk1 stocks that were transferred over. |
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 29, 2009 19:44:51 GMT
A few 72TS Mk1s were converted to OPO when the Bekerloo needed extra trains, so why couldn't more of them have been converted? Maybe because they were needed on the Northern Line? As far as the 72 stock is concerned, the 72MkII stock was most certainly NOT "ATO ready". They only had very minor differences over the MkIs, like an "Auto" position on the selector barrel - which was never wired up. They had the 72 stock TBC, no door controls in the cab, and none of the ATO equipment like the auto-driver and safety boxes. There was therefore no practical difference between converting 72MkI and 72MkII stock for the Victoria Line. In any case, if they wanted more double-ended units on the Victoria Line, there were/are plenty of original 1967 stock units which were retained as single-ended. The rationale for releaging some units to being single-ended was to avoid the cost of installing / maintaining certain new equipment in every cab in the fleet, regardless of the type of stock. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 19:49:30 GMT
As far as the 72 stock is concerned, the 72MkII stock was most certainly NOT "ATO ready". They only had very minor differences over the MkIs, like an "Auto" position on the selector barrel - which was never wired up. They had the 72 stock TBC, no door controls in the cab, They definately did have door controls in the cab. I remember seeing them prior to their conversion to "ordinary" OPO. They had the same lever-type door control handles as on the 1967ts. The 1972mk2 stock cabs also had the "start" buttons on the dasboard. I surely wouldn't have been too much trouble to wire it all up for Victoria line ATO? |
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 29, 2009 20:56:39 GMT
Maybe because they were needed on the Northern Line? They weren't all needed on the Northern, it was some of these trains that were converted for the Victoria. Sending them to the Bakerloo instead of the Victoria wouldn't have made a difference to the Northern's fleet. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Apr 29, 2009 22:30:48 GMT
72mk2TS had ATO wiring as built as the stock was always earmarked for the Fleet/Jubilee Line which as originally envisaged would have had the same system as the Victoria Line,indeed one train spent some time on the Victoria test running,as usual the escalating costs put paid to most of the plans for the Fleet/Jubilee Line for at least 20 years.Most of the redundant ATO wiring was used for the fans & improved lighting installed on refurb.
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Post by 21146 on Apr 30, 2009 9:44:14 GMT
I also recall the headwalls on the Baker Street - Charing Cross Stage 1 section had/have provision for Victoria Line-style red/green/white starting signals, as do the Northern Line platforms as Charing Cross.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2009 13:32:57 GMT
I also recall the headwalls on the Baker Street - Charing Cross Stage 1 section had/have provision for Victoria Line-style red/green/white starting signals, They still have. SSL Stock |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2009 18:07:51 GMT
I also recall the headwalls on the Baker Street - Charing Cross Stage 1 section had/have provision for Victoria Line-style red/green/white starting signals, as do the Northern Line platforms as Charing Cross. Yep. All the Baker Street - Charing Cross stations on the Jubilee line look very similar to those on the Victoria line - just in brighter colours. You can easily tell this was originally intended to be a line in a very similar mould to that of the Victoria. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2009 18:09:03 GMT
72mk2TS had ATO wiring as built as the stock was always earmarked for the Fleet/Jubilee Line which as originally envisaged would have had the same system as the Victoria Line, indeed one train spent some time on the Victoria test runningI thought I recalled reading that somewhere. |
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