East London Line Replacement Bus ELC withdrawn?

[flippyff]

According to Robert Munster's www.londonbusroutes.net/changes.htm#151, the ELL replacement bus service ELC is due to be withdrawn from the 26th September. Presuming the trains will not be running by then, can anyone confirm if this is correct and why?

TIA

Simon

[miztert]

Yeah, what on earth is that all about?!

[21146]

Basically LUL are "cutting the ELL loose" (my phrase) from Sept 26th. The ELC service is being withdrawn and passengers directed to use the existing bus route 225 which runs every 15 mins (20 mins early mornings/late evenings and Sundays) or the 381. There will be no dedicated link between the 'Cross and 'Gate anymore, but TFL say this can walked in around "3 - 4 minutes" (I don't think!). Passengers with Oyster PAYG will be advised to apply for refunds. North of the river the ELW is being reduced in frequency to every 15 mins (was 10) and only now running between 07:00 - 19:00 due to alleged poor patronage. The LU Customer Service Centre will no longer deal with any aspect of the ELL closure and any enquiries are to be handled by London Overground. Because of TFL financial cut backs it will not be possible for LU to alter train DVAs or fixed signage on stations, however all reference to the ELC/ELW/381 bus routes are to be removed from the next edition of Underground map, which is due out shortly. LO will be responsible for ensuring bus stop information is updated (by London Buses, presumably).

[Deleted]

This comes as no surprise - nor the fact that they're citing "poor patronage" as part of the reasons behind these changes. The ELL bus service was so awkward and inconvenient to use anyway that it might as well not have been there.

It would only have worked, imo, had it been a complete through-service from one end of the line to the other. Having it broken up each side of the Thames rendered the things pretty pointless and not worth the hassle to trying to use, imo.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2009 15:24:13 GMT @21146 said:

The ELC service is being withdrawn and passengers directed to use the existing bus route 225 which runs every 15 mins (20 mins early mornings/late evenings and Sundays) or the 381.

It's funny how nostalgia gets you. The oddest things at the strangest times. I have fond memories of catching the last 225 at around 01:17 from by the old depot at New Cross to take me home to Hither Green Lane via Deptford and Lewisham. It always arrived and quite often there was never anybody on it. Friday/Saturday nights it was a little like being on a stagecoach bouncing through bandit country but as I say, fond memories. Bizarre really!

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2009 18:23:03 GMT @hogspanker said:

It's funny how nostalgia gets you. The oddest things at the strangest times. I have fond memories of catching the last 225 at around 01:17 from by the old depot at New Cross to take me home to Hither Green Lane via Deptford and Lewisham. It always arrived and quite often there was never anybody on it.

Well, the ELL buses felt like this most of the time - at least they did whenever I used them! I can't recall ever seeing more than 5 other passengers on them at any one time.

If they'd had a through bus service from one end of the line to the other, I do wonder if they'd have been better used. I take the argument about the problems with the Rotherhithe tunnel, but I do remember travelling on buses through it at some point (prior to the ELL closure) and also on buses (in regular all-passenger service) kitted out for the carriage of disabled/elderly persons - so just why this proved insurmountable now, I'll never know.

[scorpio]

If memory serves me correctly, when the ELL was shut down a few years back for works I think on the Thames Tunnel the bus service they ran then was ELX using mostly double deck buses between Whitechapel and New Cross going via I think Tower Bridge etc and down the Ilderton Road and on to the Old Kent Road/New Cross Road travelling to NXG before terminating at NX. Whitechapel to Shoreditch was "numbered" ELW and ran at only the times the ELL would have run. Why couldn't they do that again for this closure? It certainly would have made sense.

[Tomcakes]

IIRC the problem with the tunnel was that the only buses which could fit through were normal - not low floor.

I'm still not sure a) why this was such a problem, considering the number of other buses which aren't low floor in the country and b) why they couldn't have operated it as such and provided a taxi service for any disabled passengers.

[Deleted]

and (c) the rail service which the bus replaced was completely inaccessible to wheelchair passengers, apart from the one journey of Canada Water to New Cross and return.

[Dmitri]

Sept 11, 2009 14:57:24 GMT Tomcakes said:

IIRC the problem with the tunnel was that the only buses which could fit through were normal - not low floor.

I recall the following train of thought: due to the current safety regulations, full size DD buses cannot use Rotherhithe tunnel anymore. And, due to the DDA, buses have to be accessible. The only compliant rolling stock available were small minibuses (MB Sprinter or suchlike) which were not deemed as a suitable replacement for the ELL trains.

[Deleted]

Sept 11, 2009 14:57:24 GMT Tomcakes said:

IIRC the problem with the tunnel was that the only buses which could fit through were normal - not low floor.

I'm still not sure a) why this was such a problem, considering the number of other buses which aren't low floor in the country and b) why they couldn't have operated it as such and provided a taxi service for any disabled passengers.

I agree. Makes no sense, does it? Especially as: (a) the split-service ELL buses were so awkward to use that few people did because they didn't traverse the whole line and; (b) there is now no ELL bus service at all for anybody as a result of that poor patronage brought about by all the above!

So, an attempt to make the thing available to everybody merely resulted in it being avaiable for nobody in the end.

[Chris M]

And that example of the law of unintended consequences has been the outcome of much DDA and H&S legislation (although by no means all).

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2009 22:28:01 GMT Chris M said:

And that example of the law of unintended consequences has been the outcome of much DDA and H&S legislation (although by no means all).

Yes, a rather silly (and counterproductive) outcome from an ostensibly good idea.

I've thought from the start that these split-service ELL buses wouldn't work. Whenever I used the ELL trains going northbound, I noticed that most people using it got off at Whitechapel to continue their journeys on the District/Hammersmith & City. Having a bus service that drops them all off at Rotherhithe or Canada Water - where the Jubilee Line often isn't even running at weekends nowadays - always struck me as a bit pointless.

Conversly, going southwards, I couldn't many people using a bus that started at Whitechapel and then just dumped everyone where it did (Wapping? I actually forget exactly where it stopped now) when most people seemed to board the East London line and travel down at least as far as Surrey Quays for shoping or to the New Cross stations to catch NR trains.

This is all before you even start to think about those people wishing to travel from Shoreditch down to, say, New Cross and vice-versa!