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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 13:44:18 GMT
Have LOROL and Network Rail not considered putting in a link to allow trains to pass from Watford DC line southbound to North London Line Eastbound at Willesden Junction?
To me, this would seem like a logical step in allowing more flexability in their services. Stratford to Watford or even Watford to Crystal Palace/ELL destinations in the future.
Might also help them deal with their four-carriage conundrum at Willesden if they were building a new grade-seperated junction. Room for new platforms.
Just a thought.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 4, 2009 15:27:50 GMT
They don't need to build one - it's already there, and in use three times a day. The first two NLL trains eastbound start, and the last westbound finishes, at Willesden Low Level and use this spur.
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Post by andypurk on Oct 4, 2009 15:30:03 GMT
Have LOROL and Network Rail not considered putting in a link to allow trains to pass from Watford DC line southbound to North London Line Eastbound at Willesden Junction? To me, this would seem like a logical step in allowing more flexability in their services. Stratford to Watford or even Watford to Crystal Palace/ELL destinations in the future. Might also help them deal with their four-carriage conundrum at Willesden if they were building a new grade-seperated junction. Room for new platforms. Just a thought. Such a connection already exists and has a couple of service trains (in the current timetable 05.58 and 06.11 leave from the low level platform (normally the bay) at Willesden Junction going to Stratford and there is an 23.56 arrival from Stratford. The connection is the 'new line' and runs from the south end of the low level platforms to Kensal Green Junction (also known as High Level Junction); you can see it if you look here on google maps ( maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.340293,28.344727&ie=UTF8&hq=willesden+junction&hnear=&t=h&ll=51.532502,-0.241227&spn=0.004445,0.011008&z=17), it is the track under the A404 bridge |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 16:19:38 GMT
The Primrose Hill section is more useful for this purpose IMHO, services can still call at Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 17:36:02 GMT
ahhh, well in that case why don't they use it more and perhaps improve service frequency on the watford branch. surely it would also take a bit of pressure off the NNL and help when things go wrong. perhaps delays in the richmond branch or such.
I agree with Tom747 totally that they should use the Primrose Hill section and also PUT BACK PRIMROSE HILL STATION! but this seems unlikely.
Think big.
Whilst we're here how about a Richmond to Euston link? Looking at the Google maps it dosn't look like this can currently be done without bypassing Willesden.
It looks like a Clapham to Euston service would involve demolishing some graves which one would not be in favour of so lets leave that one alone.
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Post by flippyff on Oct 4, 2009 18:40:45 GMT
Such a connection already exists and has a couple of service trains (in the current timetable 05.58 and 06.11 leave from the low level platform (normally the bay) at Willesden Junction going to Stratford and there is an 23.56 arrival from Stratford. The connection is the 'new line' and runs from the south end of the low level platforms to Kensal Green Junction (also known as High Level Junction); you can see it if you look here on google maps ( maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.340293,28.344727&ie=UTF8&hq=willesden+junction&hnear=&t=h&ll=51.532502,-0.241227&spn=0.004445,0.011008&z=17), it is the track under the A404 bridge Is that the 'low-level' platforms/station as shown on the Google map? ;D  ;D ;D Simon |
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Post by andypurk on Oct 4, 2009 19:47:07 GMT
Such a connection already exists and has a couple of service trains (in the current timetable 05.58 and 06.11 leave from the low level platform (normally the bay) at Willesden Junction going to Stratford and there is an 23.56 arrival from Stratford. The connection is the 'new line' and runs from the south end of the low level platforms to Kensal Green Junction (also known as High Level Junction); you can see it if you look here on google maps ( maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=17.340293,28.344727&ie=UTF8&hq=willesden+junction&hnear=&t=h&ll=51.532502,-0.241227&spn=0.004445,0.011008&z=17), it is the track under the A404 bridge Is that the 'low-level' platforms/station as shown on the Google map? ;D ;D ;D Simon Yes, the low-level platforms on the left with the asked for connecting line under the bridge just under A404  |
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Post by andypurk on Oct 4, 2009 20:04:33 GMT
ahhh, well in that case why don't they use it more and perhaps improve service frequency on the watford branch. surely it would also take a bit of pressure off the NNL and help when things go wrong. perhaps delays in the richmond branch or such. Because the Queens Park - Stonebridge Park section of the Watford line doesn't have capacity for any additional services. Off peak, it already has 9 Bakerloo per hour plus 3 LO trains and there are more during the peak. If the NLL needs more trains, they'd be better sticking with the current service plan, it's not like it is a difficult interchange at Willesden. There are plans for Primrose Hill to be reinstated, which depend on whether the Bakerloo is extended back to Watford Junction or not. Why the fascination with linking lines which would lead to reduction in services on the existing routes to supply the paths and rolling stock? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2009 22:21:42 GMT
Actually the first two services in the morning to Startford start from Platform 1 as the units normally arrive empty from Watford.
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Post by andypurk on Oct 5, 2009 10:32:02 GMT
Actually the first two services in the morning to Startford start from Platform 1 as the units normally arrive empty from Watford. Ahh, thanks for that, they used to come off WN depot into the bay before entering service. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Oct 5, 2009 11:10:46 GMT
When I was spotting at Willesden Junction in the late 1960s, we always thought that the spur was called the 'City Loop'. I think that is erroneous now? PSUL has it that the services are:
Willesden Suburban Junction - Kensal Green Junction
0558/0559 SuX Willesden Junction Low Level - Stratford
0611 SuX Willesden Junction Low Level - Stratford
plus
[Kensal Green Junction - Willesden Suburban Junction]
2312 SuX Stratford - Willesden Junction Low Level
2249 SuO Stratford - Willesden Junction Low Level
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 11:32:58 GMT
City Loop would be erroneous, I imagine that referred to Broad Street.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 12:17:51 GMT
City loop or city lines? The city lines run from Kensal Jn to the WCML
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Post by Oracle on Oct 5, 2009 12:45:17 GMT
City Lines Loop?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 12:56:39 GMT
No. There are the city lines, but no city lines loop.
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Post by Oracle on Oct 5, 2009 13:11:13 GMT
Clearly it was a misnomer..a misinterpretation by somebody at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2009 12:46:13 GMT
Clearly it was a misnomer..a misinterpretation by somebody at the time. It could have referred to when NLL trains ran to Broad Street?? |
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Post by Oracle on Oct 11, 2009 7:31:34 GMT
Good suggestion!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2009 11:15:23 GMT
lol I said that on the previous page  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 8:58:20 GMT
When NLL trains ran to Broad St they would not have used the City Lines
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2009 23:34:59 GMT
I think Richmond-Euston services existed in the distant past i.e. before the Tube. Now you would get between the two via Waterloo in a lot less time than via Willesden.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2009 0:29:02 GMT
When I was spotting at Willesden Junction in the late 1960s, we always thought that the spur was called the 'City Loop'. I think that is erroneous now? I believe Watford DC line was originally supposed to end in a loop under Euston (with tube-sized tunnels) but because of the tough financial situation of LNWR loop was never built and new lines terminated overground instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2009 5:40:08 GMT
I believe Watford DC line was originally supposed to end in a loop under Euston (with tube-sized tunnels) but because of the tough financial situation of LNWR loop was never built and new lines terminated overground instead. The LNWR Act of 1907 called for a terminal loop, of main line size tube tunnel, under Euston starting from Loundon Road (now South Hampstead) and South Hampstead tunnel is all that is left of that. The 1st world war put an end to that with the restrictions in materials and labour and the scheme was modified to the current layout and as a result was not completed until 1922. Incidently the position at Willesden should be the Camden No,2 to Watford New Station lines are the Down & Up DC Electric (formerly Down & Up New Line). The curve from Willesden New Station to Kensal Green Junction is the Down & Up New Line (formerly Down & Up New Line Loop) and this line predates the building of the DC lines when it run to the Slow Lines and was known as the Down & Up City Loop. This is not to be confused with the current Down & Up City (formerly Down & Up City Goods Loop) which were built during the late 1800's so that the blossoming freight traffic off the North London could avoid the busy station at Willeden Junction. The building of the DC lines severed the Down & Up City Loop and the Down & Up City Goods Loop remaining the only connection to the main lines at Harlesden Jn (formerly Willesden No.6). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2009 18:11:17 GMT
I think Richmond-Euston services existed in the distant past i.e. before the Tube. Now you would get between the two via Waterloo in a lot less time than via Willesden. IIRC it was Midland service from St Pancras - I may be wrong though! This was during District Railway days. |
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;D 
