metman
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Post by metman on May 9, 2010 14:33:51 GMT
Is it planned to put lifts in at Edgware Road? Are there any other useful additions that may be added to the station?
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Post by bicbasher on May 10, 2010 11:05:48 GMT
Because of today's severe delays, the Circle service I boarded decided to go round the old route after Edgware Road instead of Hammersmith. At least a 12 min gap between services too at 9.40am.
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Post by citysig on May 10, 2010 11:31:48 GMT
12 minute gap between "Circle" services or both H&C and Circle services? If it's the former then an extended wait of just 2 minutes more than the booked 10-minute service. If the latter, then an extended wait of 7 minutes more than the booked 5-minute service.
Given that most problems today have centred around Aldgate (a signalling problem early on, followed by a tresspasser in the tunnel a while later) and given that that location is one of the most critical in terms of the Circle, H&C and District, I would say the wait wasn't as painful as it would have been this time last year.
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Post by bicbasher on May 10, 2010 14:29:45 GMT
12 minute gap between "Circle" services or both H&C and Circle services? quote] A 12 minute gap between services on the Circle and H&C westbound this morning. The DOI had Hammersmith, but the blind had Circle Line via Aldgate. |
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Post by su31 on May 10, 2010 14:34:05 GMT
According to the planned engineering works info, the section between Hammersmith & Edgware Road will be closed due to a blockade at Paddington for a few weeks soon. This means the Circle will go back to its original running for the duration.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 15:07:20 GMT
Because of today's severe delays, the Circle service I boarded decided to go round the old route after Edgware Road instead of Hammersmith. At least a 12 min gap between services too at 9.40am. Lucky you didn't try to get to Hammersmith between 09.40 and 10.45 as we were completely suspended on that road. Only option then was an inner & outer rail with some H&C trains running to triangle to reverse! |
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Post by bicbasher on May 11, 2010 10:55:47 GMT
Because of today's severe delays, the Circle service I boarded decided to go round the old route after Edgware Road instead of Hammersmith. At least a 12 min gap between services too at 9.40am. Lucky you didn't try to get to Hammersmith between 09.40 and 10.45 as we were completely suspended on that road. Only option then was an inner & outer rail with some H&C trains running to triangle to reverse! I wanted to travel to Royal Oak, but fortunate that Bayswater is 5 mins walk away. |
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Post by citysig on May 11, 2010 20:03:31 GMT
I've controlled the new timetable. I've travelled as a passenger through Edgware Road. Today, I had the opportunity to go "back to my roots" and refresh my knowledge of working Edgware Road Signal Cabin.
Firstly from an operator point of view. Compared to my last proper time there working the cabin (over 12 years ago) the whole service seems to be very repetitive indeed - caused mainly because for the most part, each train is where it should be. So there's little room for varied working. Years ago, you had the odd bit of late running and the odd bit of platform variation to bring a bit of mixture. Today, about all I had were a couple of minor delays to trains departing, giving me a very short spell of "work" to catch up, followed by a quick return to the norm. 12 years ago it would have taken ages to catch up, with numerous late running trains. Today, apart from the odd minute here and there, nothing to report.
From the customer perspective. The routine nature of the timetable - once I had settled in to working it - meant I had opportunity to keep half an eye on movements on the platforms. Very little in terms of hoards of confused people. Everyone seemed to know where they were going. Information was displayed (via the cabin - who have CCTV to ensure everything is also showing on the platforms.) The station staff it has to be said seem to work almost flat out to ensure the information is getting through.
So once again, I've picked a fairly random day. Yes the service was fairly quiet - but then surely we should measure more on this than when it's delayed, as we do aspire to run on time, and want to make delays as rare as possible.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 11, 2010 21:36:15 GMT
Out of interest what time of day were you working there?
While not trying to dismiss your comments in any way, I would expect a normal Tuesday in mid may to have a much lower proportion of travellers unfamiliar with the station/service than on a summer weekend.
On a slightly separate line of thought, are there any statistics available regarding numbers of people travelling through the station? Has there been the predicted significant shift of people starting their eastbound journeys at Paddington towards using the H&C line station rather than the Praed Street station?
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Post by Tomcakes on May 11, 2010 22:31:32 GMT
Though a known critic of lots of things, I've actually found (in my admittedly anecdotal evidence) little problem with the new Circle. Any time I've gone for one, it's been there within the advertised 10 minutes, and there have been no particular delays. Changing at Edgware Road is generally trivial.
Maybe I'm lucky for once. I doubt it's perfect, but it could have been a lot worse.
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Post by citysig on May 12, 2010 7:43:56 GMT
While not trying to dismiss your comments in any way, I would expect a normal Tuesday in mid may to have a much lower proportion of travellers unfamiliar with the station/service than on a summer weekend.  ;D Oh come on, it's getting to the point that whenever I witness the "Edgware Road problems" it is a day that doesn't fit with the time "when problems exist." I am sure the day I do in mid-summer will be "one of those days when people weren't out and about because it was raining." I was operating the cabin from around 1430 until around 2000 - so tail-end of the afternoon and throughout the evening peak. The days I see it in operation are fairly random - they are not planned based on whether it is believed the service will be quiet that day. In fact I'm just like the average customer turning up to travel. The days will continue from time to time throughout the coming months. I will also be visiting Hammersmith as well in connection with refreshing my licence to work the cabin there, so will get to see how that's changed from when I worked there years ago. I know we have problems from time to time, and maybe on one occasion I will witness it and be able to feed back - although of course the feedback is always coming in from the outside world - not least this forum. I am sure there are figures available somewhere (we seem to have a team of hundreds who compile all sorts of figures for everything - no different from many large companies.) |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on May 12, 2010 9:05:47 GMT
Though a known critic of lots of things, I've actually found (in my admittedly anecdotal evidence) little problem with the new Circle. Any time I've gone for one, it's been there within the advertised 10 minutes, and there have been no particular delays. Changing at Edgware Road is generally trivial. Maybe I'm lucky for once. I doubt it's perfect, but it could have been a lot worse. Yes, it works quite well as you say, but Paddington is still counter-intuitive. Arriving by FGW you always used to preselect (Praed St or Bishops Rd) depending on your destination. Nowadays everyone goes for the H&C platforms, despite their narrowness. BUT my (limited) observations are that it's now ALWAYS better to use the 'Circle' platforms and change, even if you want KX, LS etc. I tried both and if the 'next' train is a H&C, it's still quicker to go 'circle' and change - the shorter walk to the platform means you tend to arrive at ERD before the H&C (two choices at Praed St, circle/district, remember) and overtake it. Do metcontrol, linecontroller66 or one of the other 'professionals' know if this is indeed the case, or confirm/deny it?, because if so the wrong advice is being given at PADD. |
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Post by citysig on May 12, 2010 20:03:28 GMT
Do metcontrol, linecontroller66 or one of the other 'professionals' know if this is indeed the case, or confirm/deny it?, because if so the wrong advice is being given at PADD. ;D Not sure my colleague and I have ever been called "professionals" before. Allow me to wallow for a moment and send a quick link to my manager Ok done. I can picture in my mind the experience you mention and can see why it would work on most occasions - especially if you're near to the barriers at Paddington when you get off the train - the walk is of course shorter. But as I think about it, it maybe does reveal a small factor maybe not explored before. As we all know (or should do by now) trains ex-Hammersmith leave every 5 minutes, as do alternate District/Circle Edgware Road services from High Street Ken. The split over Praed Street Junction is roughly a train every 2½ minutes, alternating H&C/ERD Circle/Proper Circle/District/H&C etc. Due to the current padding in the timetable, the trains ex-Hammersmith do occasionally arrive up to 2 minutes early at Edgware Road, and of course this may mean that the service that "should" be at Paddington may have already left, creating the odd un-detected 7-minute gap. Trains ex-Hammersmith are held to time there, but can recover time in the fairly long ride to Edgware Road. Trains ex-High Street are also held, but obviously don't have as long a journey and are not as likely to leave Paddington more than 30 seconds early. So, on reflection, it may be that we are not providing the 5-minute service ex-Paddington, but more something like every 3-7 minutes. The chances are that when you change at Edgware Road, you may still be catching the "same" ex-Hammersmith train that "should" have been at Paddington if you had used the H&C platforms, and are able to "catch it up" because it is being held for time at Edgware Road. So, whilst the padding exists, I think if I were to undertake the same journey, then maybe I would favour the Circle platforms to the recommended H&C platforms. As for the "wrong" advice at Paddington, that's a difficult one. Definately between the devil and the deep blue sea, and if changed then definately pushing people into taking the sort of "gamble" and train change at Edgware Road discussed here, rather than a direct service. Maybe reserve judgement until the padding is removed. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 13:50:04 GMT
I can't think of a better place to do padding than at Paddington.  [Sorry if this an old joke] |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2010 19:27:22 GMT
I haven't had occasion to use the Circle west of Baker Street so far but judging by the reports in the Standard Oh dear  The ES was of course the main UK paper for publishing complaints from customers long before the introduction of the timetable. From the Customer perspective. The large majority of regular commuters have, by now, formed their new journey habits, and are basically "getting on with it." Some are probably not happy still. Others will be seeing the increased reliability. Less regular travellers still have problems with the service, but when you think about it, for many of those, the underground as a whole is a challenge regardless of what service we run. I think some of the details that still need to be addressed will be tackled over coming weeks and months. We are only 4 months into this service, and now some of the bedding down has happened, we can address the things that are still causing problems. What is known for certain, is that stations on the old Circle route are now seeing hugely increased reliability. Where we used to offer an 8-minute service, and give you a train every 8-16 minutes, we now offer a train every 10 minutes and more often than not we give you that train every 10 minutes. From the Service Control perspective. I have now experienced everything from dead-quiet service to complete carnage. If you were to draw a curve to simulate these 2 extremes, there is a point around one-third of the way up where the service becomes a beast. The only way to get it back is to cause huge gaping holes in the service for around an hour or 2. I still say it is much better than it used to be. Now at least after disruption, we can sort the service out and it stays sorted until the next disruption. Previously it would "un-sort" itself long after disruption cleared. This post reminds me of the old story about how well a transport system can be run if you don't need to worry about the wants or needs of the passengers. |
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Post by citysig on May 22, 2010 22:06:32 GMT
But that's just it. The timetable was created to provide the more reliable service. The only "problem" that has been created is the Edgware Road "issue." Most people tend to focus on this mainly because all the other problems the service used to suffer have largely gone away.
All those thousands of people travelling from the top half to the bottom half via Aldgate, who used to regularly have to wait 20 minutes, or worse still, were pushed to travel via Aldgate East (involving a cross-bridge interchange) now don't have to do that quite as often as they used to.
All those occasions when we used to have to "steal" Circles to cover gaps on the Hammersmith branch, causing another gap on the Circle are now history.
The pretty grim 8 minute frequency (which often ran at 10 or more minutes) on the Hammersmith branch is also consigned to the history books.
The scenario where if anything happened the Circles would be the first thing to be suspended is much less than it used to be.
I could go on. But still the Edgware Road issue will come up. But we cannot really be accused of not taking our customers needs into account.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 18:11:10 GMT
Word reaches the Monkfish that the Circle will revert to being a Circle again in July or August for three weeks, due to engineering works. I haven't seen anything in writing myself though!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on May 25, 2010 18:19:49 GMT
S stock enabling works at Hammersmith, perchance?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 19:51:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 12:40:49 GMT
Word reaches the Monkfish that the Circle will revert to being a Circle again in July or August for three weeks, due to engineering works. I haven't seen anything in writing myself though! You'll see the old circle sooner than that (pending last minute changes to the engineering plan) !!! Weekend of 29th-31st May should witness traditional OR/IR circles at a 6tph service level Apologies in advance if this has already been mentioned, I did have a quick trawl back and skim through this thread to check. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 21:43:44 GMT
Word reaches the Monkfish that the Circle will revert to being a Circle again in July or August for three weeks, due to engineering works. I haven't seen anything in writing myself though! You'll see the old circle sooner than that (pending last minute changes to the engineering plan) !!! Weekend of 29th-31st May should witness traditional OR/IR circles at a 6tph service level Apologies in advance if this has already been mentioned, I did have a quick trawl back and skim through this thread to check. No bloody business sense - should be advertised as a heritage service ;D ;D |
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Post by citysig on May 27, 2010 7:29:03 GMT
Historically bad in my opinion ;D
Would be interesting to see if, after a few weeks of having the old Circle back, people are crying out to go back to the new timetable.
Like shedcompnodosh, I'm sure we have mentioned the up-coming "old Circle" period of running a while back - but I couldn't find it either.
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Post by plasmid on May 27, 2010 8:23:31 GMT
careful now, you don't want some randomer looking at this thread thinking "Circle Line Partaayyyy". hahahaha
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 11:56:32 GMT
Speaking as a passenger.
I work in the Paddington area and find with the new arrangement the trains can be a lot more crowded than before the change.
Especially if there is a bit of a delay at Paddington the platform fills up. and then once you arrive at Edgeware road you often get a full circle line train that has just terminated of people trying to squash in to one train.
But on the reverse side. I've had journeys that if you get to Edgeware road and the terminating Circle line train hasn't arrived the train seems to be quite empty.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 15, 2010 13:07:39 GMT
careful now, you don't want some randomer looking at this thread thinking "Circle Line Partaayyyy". hahahaha Well the title on the index page does just read "The Circle after a few" |
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;D Oh come on, it's getting to the point that whenever I witness the "Edgware Road problems" it is a day that doesn't fit with the time "when problems exist." I am sure the day I do in mid-summer will be "one of those days when people weren't out and about because it was raining." 
[Sorry if this an old joke]
The ES was of course the main UK paper for publishing complaints from customers long before the introduction of the timetable.
