D78 stock diversions

[jg]

Just out of interest I was wondering. If the Line was blocked between South Kensington and Tower Hill would it be possible to move D78 stock via the Northern circle?

i.e. eastbound from Earls CT onto High ST Kensington branch via Baker St and rejoin District via Algate East Junction and the same but westbound.

I realise this could not be done in service due to platorm length but what about out of service for a stock move?

[Dstock7080]

D Stock must not enter the platforms at Aldgate and is not permitted on any other of that section.

[uzairjubilee]

Going a bit off topic here, but Dstock7080, when the S Stock is introduced, do you know whether that will still be the case? I imagine not.

[t697]

Jul 5, 2010 22:08:56 GMT uzairjubilee said:

Going a bit off topic here, but Dstock7080, when the S Stock is introduced, do you know whether that will still be the case? I imagine not.

S stock is designed to be a 'go anywhere on SSR' train. Obviously S8 only for the met, but the S8 and S7 cars are the same from a gauging point of view. That does not mean that any gauging infringements to be dealt with will necessarily make any difference to D78 route clearance. Similarly, the operational infrastructure is not being modified to accomodate D78 service operation outside its current routes.

[Chris M]

If work on S stock gauging clearances had the side effect of enabling D78s to fit as well, would they (and I have no idea who "they" are in this context) bother to amend the rules that state where the stock may and may not go?

[Dstock7080]

I'm sure that S Stock gauging will be simply that, no thought would be given to the D Stock.

[andypurk]

Jul 7, 2010 13:30:46 GMT Chris M said:

If work on S stock gauging clearances had the side effect of enabling D78s to fit as well, would they (and I have no idea who "they" are in this context) bother to amend the rules that state where the stock may and may not go?

I think the the S stock cars will still be shorter than the D78 cars (A Stock car = 15.3m, D Stock car = 18.1m and an S8 train will be a couple of meters longer than an A stock train; making S-stock at least two meters shorter per car than the D-stock). So D78 stock may not fit where the S-Stock can, even once the clearances have been modified.

[Dstock7080]

Jul 7, 2010 14:06:53 GMT andypurk said:

I think the the S stock cars will still be shorter than the D78 cars (A Stock car = 15.3m, D Stock car = 18.1m and an S8 train will be a couple of meters longer than an A stock train; making S-stock at least two meters shorter per car than the D-stock). So D78 stock may not fit where the S-Stock can, even once the clearances have been modified.

S Stock DM car 18130mm over couplers, 17430mm body.

[andypurk]

Jul 7, 2010 15:01:59 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Jul 7, 2010 14:06:53 GMT andypurk said:

I think the the S stock cars will still be shorter than the D78 cars (A Stock car = 15.3m, D Stock car = 18.1m and an S8 train will be a couple of meters longer than an A stock train; making S-stock at least two meters shorter per car than the D-stock). So D78 stock may not fit where the S-Stock can, even once the clearances have been modified.

S Stock DM car 18130mm over couplers, 17430mm body.

Are you sure about those numbers, because they would make an S8 train at least a car length longer than the existing A stock trains and I havn't seen evidence for that much extra platform space being installed.

[Deleted]

That's a DM, I Imagine a NDM/T would be shorter, given the distinct lack of Cab.

[SE13]

S Stock is about an inch narrower, so I can't see it making that much difference on where it's allowed to go.

In theory all S Stock should be available to run on all SSL, thought whether it happens or not remains debatable.

There is a discussion about this somewhere else, and we were debating what stock is allowed on what line, must dig that out and link, but basically all tube stock bar 73ts is allowed almost everywhere, and I think we concluded that bar emergency, only tube stock on DLL, and everything else allowed almost everywhere bar the odd exception.

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2010 17:35:52 GMT SE13 said:

There is a discussion about this somewhere else, and we were debating what stock is allowed on what line, must dig that out and link, but basically all tube stock bar 73ts is allowed almost everywhere, and I think we concluded that bar emergency, only tube stock on DLL, and everything else allowed almost everywhere bar the odd exception.

Why are trains of 1973 tube stock only allowed on certain lines?

What does DLL mean?

[Chris M]

1973 stock cars are longer than most (all?) other stocks and so requires more clearance around curves than the other stocks.

I can't help re DLL though.

[Dstock7080]

to update:
S Stock DM car 18130mm over couplers, 17430mm body.

S Stock M1, M2, MS cars 15434mm body.

[Deleted]

DLL =Deep Level Lines?

[Ben]

When were the D's banned from Aldgate platforms? Course there have been wrong sticks, and a few years back someone told an anecdote that they knew a motorman who had (pre Edgware Road resignalling) taken a D stock round the northern circle on diversion because of a problem on the southern half. Also because of track replacement, D stock has (long) in the past done <- EC - HSK - GR -> .

So the cab of an S stock is two metres deep? That must be about double the depth of a Q23...

[Chris M]

I recall someone (probably prjb) saying somewhere on this forum that the S stock cabs are structured with much more space between the driver and the front windows than whichever of the existing surface stock fleet was being compared to, I think this is at least partly due to greater protection for the driver in the event of an end-on collision. I can't find the thread in question now (I think it gave a bit more detail), but to help those better at such searches than me, it was quite a while ago (almost certainly last year) and in the context of forward visibility and front window sizes (and maybe also signal sighting?).

[SE13]

Jul 7, 2010 18:44:03 GMT etr220 said:

DLL =Deep Level Lines?

Yes, sorry, should have explained that.