Signal Diagram Cromwell Road Cabin 1957

[Harsig]

Following on from the thread on the signalling Diagram for Turnham Green I thought the following diagram might be of interest as well

Cromwell Road (1.6MB)

I should warn you it is a very big file but it covers the area from west of Earls Court to High St Kensington and east of South Kensington as it was in 1957.

Paragraph 1 of the associated supplement to Traffic Circular says

1- OBJECT OF REARRANGEMENT OF TRACKS

On Saturday night, 27th July, ready for commencement of traffic on Sunday morning, alterations to the track layout at Gloucester Road and South Kensington will be carried out and the running lines between these points will be rearranged. The object of these alterations is-
(a) to permit an altered system of running which will improve train headways.
(b) to avoid the present blocking back of westbound trains by the crossing movement of eastbound District and Outer Rail Circle Trains east of South Kensington.
(c) to eliminate passengers' present uncertainty at Gloucester Road and South Kensington station as to the platform from which the next eastbound will leave and
(d) to allow of an eastbound District service non-stopping Gloucester Road and South Kensington stations.

At the same time the control of the signalling for the new track layout west of Gloucester Road and at South Kensington will be incorporated in the East Control Desk in Cromwell Road Signal Box. This signal box will then have the complete control of the signalling in the whole area from west of Earls Court to High Street(Kensington) and east of South Kensington.

[Deleted]

SNAPS!

Geocities gave up and died

[Deleted]

A superb map, Harsig, Thank you!
Incredible how much has changed since then!

[Admin Team]

AAARRRGGGHHH....

All I'm getting is a 'Page Unavailable' Message!!!

[solidbond]

You need to cut and paste the link, and then it should work

[Admin Team]

solidbond said:

You need to cut and paste the link, and then it should work

Ah yes, so it does

[Harsig]

Alternatively you might try
Cromwell Road Alternate (1.6MB)

Every time I click on the link in my original post I get diverted to this one so perhaps its your firewall that is preventing you from accessing the file.

[Dmitri]

I've downloaded it using GetRight (a download manager) - works like a charm (a hint to those who are on the slow or unreliable connections .

[Deleted]

I managed to get it too.

It's certainly quite a different layout than now, although the extra crossovers east of Earls Court on the east side of the w/b island would be a godsend to have on the rougher days of disruption

[Harsig]

TheOneKEA said:

although the extra crossovers east of Earls Court on the east side of the w/b island would be a godsend to have on the rougher days of disruption

Unless of course it was the failure of these crossovers which caused the disruption

[Deleted]

TheOneKEA said:

I managed to get it too.

It's certainly quite a different layout than now, although the extra crossovers east of Earls Court on the east side of the w/b island would be a godsend to have on the rougher days of disruption

Anyone know what year the Xover at the east of the station was removed? Obviously we can still go into platform 4 coming from the city, but not to platform 3 from HSK!

The reason I ask is because I noticed the other day that signal REC36^ab (on the wall of triangle as you drop down the dip) still has a route indicator showing the move from that line to platform 3!

[Deleted]

Harsig said:

Unless of course it was the failure of these crossovers which caused the disruption

Well, that can be said of any complex layout.

[Admin Team]

AlanL said:

The reason I ask is because I noticed the other day that signal REC36^ab (on the wall of triangle as you drop down the dip) still has a route indicator showing the move from that line to platform 3!

There is???

[Harsig]

AlanL said:

Anyone know what year the Xover at the east of the station was removed? Obviously we can still go into platform 4 coming from the city, but not to platform 3 from HSK!

The reason I ask is because I noticed the other day that signal REC36^ab (on the wall of triangle as you drop down the dip) still has a route indicator showing the move from that line to platform 3!

Not an exact answer but Traffic Circular 14/66, in operation for the week commencing Saturday 16th April 1966, says

A3. - TRACK LATYOUT AT EARLS COURT

(a) The track layout at Earls Court is being simplified. Two stages have been completed and Nos 7 and 109 crossovers have already been taken out of commission.
...

so it seems the answer is early 1966.

[Deleted]

Why was the crossover removed? Surely there is sense in retaining the ability to run the entire service from either side of the w/b island, or to provide a place to path trains in case of a breakdown in the platform road.

Then again, if the existing IMR at EC was in place in 1966, perhaps it won't be so had to restore the crossover...

[Harsig]

TheOneKEA said:

Why was the crossover removed? Surely there is sense in retaining the ability to run the entire service from either side of the w/b island, or to provide a place to path trains in case of a breakdown in the platform road.

Then again, if the existing IMR at EC was in place in 1966, perhaps it won't be so had to restore the crossover...

Unfortunately the 1966 alterations were in connection with the commissioning of the current IMR.

You'll notice that the other crossover mentioned in the traffic circular extract as having been removed was the one which gave access from the Wimbledon Branch to the outside of the eastbound island platform. I had heard a rumour that the simplification of the track layout was connected with the introduction of programme machine control.

[Tom]

Harsig said:

I had heard a rumour that the simplification of the track layout was connected with the introduction of programme machine control.

This rumour is correct, programme machines are simple beasts so track layouts have to be simplified, reducing flexibility, to aid modernisation.

Is this progress?

[Deleted]

Tom said:

This rumour is correct, programme machines are simple beasts so track layouts have to be simplified, reducing flexibility, to aid modernisation.

Is this progress?

Apparently so! Considering that in the 60s, LT wasn't high on the priorities list of the Minister of Transport, I'm surprised that the amount of flexibility is still relatively good!

Too bad that resignalling the site now as part of the District closures would be completely impossible to do

[Colin]

I had heard a rumour recently (you hear at least 2 every day working on LUL!), that the crossovers removed both East and Westbound are to be restored at some point in the distant future. If they ever are - you read it here first !!

[Admin Team]

COLIN said:

I had heard a rumour recently (you hear at least 2 every day working on LUL!), that the crossovers removed both East and Westbound are to be restored at some point in the distant future. If they ever are - you read it here first !!

Yup, I've heard that too - and I believe it does fall in with the SSL upgrade plans.

Personally I think it will happen - we need more flexibility round Earls Court and this must help.

I'm sure that with the benefit of hindsight it's accepted that the removal of the crossovers to both the east and west of the station was a mistake.

[q8]

The only reason those crossovers were removed was to eliminate the diamond flat crossings or so I was once told. This was called rationalisation at the time of the programme machine installation. That was also the excuse given when Acton Town was re-signalled. "To confine conflicting moves to the bare minimum"

[uzairjubilee]

So where exactly will the crossovers be put back?

[Dstock7080]

Jul 17, 2008 15:40:01 GMT uzairjubilee said:

So where exactly will the crossovers be put back?

As i understand-
from WB line ex-HSt KENSINGTON into platform3
from EB line ex-WEST BROMPTON into platform1

[Deleted]

I wonder if modern computer based interlockings are noticeably slower when controlling complicated areas as opposed to simple areas?

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2008 15:49:27 GMT Dstock7080 said:

Jul 17, 2008 15:40:01 GMT uzairjubilee said:

So where exactly will the crossovers be put back?

As i understand-
from WB line ex-HSt KENSINGTON into platform3
from EB line ex-WEST BROMPTON into platform1

Is that definitely going ahead, and if so, when?

[Deleted]

i wouldnt hold your breath at the earliest when the district line gets resignalled and that aint gonna happen till at least 2012 even though we heard at work its not gonna be to 2016 now but who knows earls court is a complex site and tom is right programme machines are simple in there principles but the design of the circuits is something else as im sure theres a few people on here will agree with me, the only saving grace with them is that only a few signal ops know how the sites should work properly so we only get a few nasty jobs on them