How hot?

[chris]

With temperatures here in the south allegedly reaching 30 degrees, how hot does it get down in the deep level tube lines on days like these?

[Tom]

During the day, not too bad thanks to air movement. During the night easily 37 degrees C and higher (I expect Elephant Relay Room is 37 already by now).

[Deleted]

tom said:

During the day, not too bad thanks to air movement.

Yes, but it still gets hot down there, as there isnt a great deal of air movement. I was in Liverpool Street sidings a few weeks ago waiting to be walked out, we must have been in there for about 40 mins, i can say it wasnt excatly cool.

[Tom]

Yes, on the main it isn't too bad, but sidings and rooms in stations still get very hot and are fairly constant all day.

[Deleted]

The Bakerloo was like a sauna all year round in the days of the 38 stock, the heat all those bulbs gave out on an already hot train and tunnel was unbelievable.

[Tom]

It hasn't changed much ;D

[q8]

The Bakerloo was like a sauna all year round in the days of the 38 stock, the heat all those bulbs gave out on an already hot train and tunnel was unbelievable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Too bloody right!!!! I remember being stuck outside Baker Street on the north during a signal failure on a blazing day. After 10 minutes people were forcing the doors back to get some air. Oddly enough no windows were broken.

[Deleted]

I have been told the Central is the hottest, and my journey from Northolt to Notting Hill Gate yesterday (Sat 18/6) was pretty bad, I was so glad to get off that one! I have been told that 1200 people were treated for heat exhaustion on the Central in one incident.

[Christopher J]

A journey though the city in the peak on the Central is something I wouldn't recommend. I always try and avoid the Central during peak periods.

A few weeks ago I was changing from the Piccadilly to the Central at Holborn at around 17:30 and it was so hot and exhausting I just needed to go upstairs and get some fresh air and a drink before heading back down.

[chris]

I just hope all these commuters wear good deodrant. ;D ;D ;D

[Tom]

Most of them don't ;D

I made use of my cab permit on friday night going to work, if only for the cab air conditioning!

[q8]

I t makes me wonder why those "upstairs" don't use the current from motor barking to drive some sort of extraction system at stations. I sent them a suggestion but all I got in reply was excuses & bumpf.

[Phil]

q8 said:

I t makes me wonder why those "upstairs" don't use the current from motor barking to drive some sort of extraction system at stations. I sent them a suggestion but all I got in reply was excuses & bumpf.

But where do you extract it to?

[SE13]

As one enters a shop of a hot day, many have those cold air blowers above the doors. With the wind movement through the tunnels, is it possible for a similar type of thing on the deep level lines?

[piccadillypilot]

se13 said:

many have those cold air blowers above the doors.

They are removing heat from the air, that heat has to go somewhere.

[Phil]

piccadillypilot said:

They are removing heat from the air, that heat has to go somewhere.

Exactly.

[SE13]

piccadillypilot said:

se13 said:

many have those cold air blowers above the doors.

They are removing heat from the air, that heat has to go somewhere.

But surely somewhere down there, there are ventilation shafts. The system can't rely on recirculation of air alone.?.? And also if it's in the stations/platforms, the warmer air could be pumped back to the surface in almost the same way as passengers arrive on the platform.

Costly, I would admit, but if the passengers DON'T come first, then the Underground would eventually surely cease to exist.....

[piccadillypilot]

se13 said:

But surely somewhere down there, there are ventilation shafts. The system can't rely on recirculation of air alone.?.?

Air enters the system through the stations is pushed through the tunnels by the trains and expelled via ventilation shafts with extractor fans. As the heated air is expelled it's adding to the already heated atmosphere.

It's not about "forgetting about the customer". It's down to simple physics and solving the problem without increasing it. Don't forget that any equipment being run to extract air and heat will generate it's own heat. It's a vicious circle.

The equipment also has to be put somewhere, space on trains is limited by the size and shape of the tunnels. The trains themselves now have more equipment fitted than before which produces more heat.

We (as a people) want more and more gadgets and better services. Providing those services creates heat.

[Colin]

se13 said:

But surely somewhere down there, there are ventilation shafts. The system can't rely on recirculation of air alone.?.? And also if it's in the stations/platforms, the warmer air could be pumped back to the surface in almost the same way as passengers arrive on the platform.

Don't forget, apart from the Jubilee extension, the system was built in Victorian times - when ventilation shafts and air conditioning weren't thought of

[q8]

All this, as usual comes down to money. Yet they can't seem to solve a relatively simple problem. You read elsewhere that the water table in London is constantly rising and threatening the tube. Now water underground is generally COLD so surely it is not beyond the realms of possibilty to use that cold water in conjunction the warm air extraction system?

I don't know the pro's and cons of it but there must be a solution somewhere?

[piccadillypilot]

q8 said:

I don't know the pro's and cons of it but there must be a solution somewhere?

There is, but it would need us (as a society) to stop wanting all our gadget and gizmos or be willing to pay for the solution.

Heat is energy and you can't destroy energy, only change it from one form to another and it has to go somewhere. Deciding where to put it cost effectively is the problem.

Doubtless if money was no object the boffins could sort it out overnight, but we want everything on the cheap so that isn't going to happen.

[piccadillypilot]

colin said:

the system was built in Victorian times - when ventilation shafts and air conditioning weren't thought of

Ventilation shaft were most definitely built on the tube railways. I don't recall where they all are but they'll be listed in the WRM.

The sub-surface railway was built mostly open to the air, it was electrification that allowed it to be built over.

[q8]

Excuse a higgerant old fart but what's a "WRM"

[piccadillypilot]

q8 said:

what's a "WRM"

The Working Reference Manual which is the monstrosity that's replaced the Rule Book, Sectional Appendicies and other working instructions.

[q8]

Ta muchly PP