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Post by littlebrute on Sept 29, 2010 22:27:54 GMT
Why couldn't the Jubilee be extended from Charing Cross along the route of the extension instead of what actually happened?
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Post by t697 on Sept 29, 2010 22:32:59 GMT
Why couldn't the Jubilee be extended from Charing Cross along the route of the extension instead of what actually happened? The line of the tunnels at Charing Cross goes east towards the Aldwych area, the 1970s intended line of route. This was completely wrong for the 1990s extension to Westminster, Waterloo and so on. |
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Post by littlebrute on Sept 29, 2010 22:46:09 GMT
Ah right, that makes sense. Although they could've built new platforms and tunnels facing the extension route. Or would the fact that both the Bakerloo and Northern go to Waterloo from Charing Cross been a deciding factor on that?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 29, 2010 22:54:20 GMT
I think the tunnels are facing completely the wrong way to get to Westminster from Charing Cross. If there is space available you'd almost certainly end up at Waterloo heading west or south-west, which is completely the wrong direction for the Docklands, which would mean yet another 180 degree turn. This would cost lots more to construct and significantly lengthen journey times (further to travel at slower speeds) and probably leave you somewhere near Elephant and Castle[1] before you're facing east. This would mean duplicating the Northern Line route to get to London Bridge.
[1]Unless you carried on the clockwise curve and ended up back at Charing Cross...
Connecting the Docklands to London Bridge, Waterloo and Westminster was one of the key objectives of the JLE as built.
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Post by littlebrute on Sept 29, 2010 22:56:31 GMT
Understandable, thanks for answering guys!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 30, 2010 0:59:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 8:20:44 GMT
Is it possible to extend the Jubilee from Charing Cross and have a new branch?
Say Charing Cross > Blackfriars Temple > St Paul's > Moorgate > Farringdon > KXSP > Euston ?
EDIT: Blackfriars substituted for temple due to real distance.
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Post by harlesden on Sept 30, 2010 8:45:35 GMT
Moorgate-Farringdon-KXSP is already well covered by SSL. The walking distance between St. Paul's and Moorgate is rather too short to consider brand new tunnels linking the two. The cost of building your new branch could not be justified IMHO - especially as two tube lines already link KXSP and Euston.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 8:49:07 GMT
Plus it will be completely impractical, as it will leave the most crowded part of Jubilee on a branch.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 9:29:57 GMT
Hm. True. Silly idea. Thought it was.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 10:27:06 GMT
The 'original' Fleet (Jubilee) plan was, after Stage 1 to Charing Cross, Stage 2 via Aldwych & Cannon Street to Fenchurch Street, then Stage 3 turning South East to Lewisham, and a take over of the BR 'Mid-Kent' line to Hayes and Addiscombe.
Then when Docklands development came into the picture the River Line proposals emerged - essentially east from Fenchurch St through Docklands towards Thamesmead.
But neither Fleet/Jubilee 2 & 3, or River line was felt affordable at that time (1970s/80s): the DLR emerged in place of the River Line, as appropriate (and affordable) for the then (low density) Docklands regeneration proposals.
Then came Olympia and York's Canary Wharf Development - for which they said 'we want a tube link to Waterloo', and were prepared to contribute to it - and it is essentially that 'Waterloo and Docklands' proposition (with their contribution - which sounded big but AIUI ended up being a comparatively small contribution) which became the JLE as built.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2010 20:19:29 GMT
My question about the JLE is it pronounced "jelly"? If not, why not?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 1, 2010 18:49:43 GMT
Why couldn't the Jubilee be extended from Charing Cross along the route of the extension instead of what actually happened? Perhaps this diagram hanging on my wall may help answer the question in the OP:  JLE Charing Cross to Waterloo by rincewindthefailedwizard, on Flickr |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Oct 1, 2010 19:32:38 GMT
Why couldn't the Jubilee be extended from Charing Cross along the route of the extension instead of what actually happened? Perhaps this diagram hanging on my wall may help answer the question in the OP: JLE Charing Cross to Waterloo by rincewindthefailedwizard, on Flickr Point made and,if anything,the diagram OVERestimates the distance between the end of the Fleet/Jubilee Line tunnels,and Aldwych station. They really go quite a long way East,past Charing X station. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 1, 2010 19:50:16 GMT
Point made and,if anything,the diagram OVERestimates the distance between the end of the Fleet/Jubilee Line tunnels,and Aldwych station. They really go quite a long way East,past Charing X station. I suspect "COVENT GARDEN" got in the way, the diagram is after all, 'NTS'. |
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Post by londonstuff on Oct 1, 2010 21:01:06 GMT
Point made and,if anything,the diagram OVERestimates the distance between the end of the Fleet/Jubilee Line tunnels,and Aldwych station. They really go quite a long way East,past Charing X station. I'm not sure it OVERestimates the length of the overrun tunnel at Charing Cross - according to the SS there, the tunnels only stop a couple of hundred metres short of Aldwych. |
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Post by harlesden on Oct 1, 2010 21:06:16 GMT
So anyone waiting on the platform at Aldwych would have heard the tunneling
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Oct 1, 2010 21:35:35 GMT
Point made and,if anything,the diagram OVERestimates the distance between the end of the Fleet/Jubilee Line tunnels,and Aldwych station. They really go quite a long way East,past Charing X station. I'm not sure it OVERestimates the length of the overrun tunnel at Charing Cross - according to the SS there, the tunnels only stop a couple of hundred metres short of Aldwych. That's not quite what I said,which leads us to agree upon your the second part of your post. |
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