Metal Mickey, Mummy Bear and Daddy Bear

[Deleted]

Ever since I first got interested in the signalling side of LU, I've heard these three names in reference to certain signalling computers installed at various sites on the combine.

How precisely did they get these names, and what sort of computer are they to deserve them?

[Deleted]

they are just nicknames for the machines at baker street but they are about the same age as a sinclair spectrum ( early 80's computer ) i9 dont know much about them never worked on the met line or ever went into the computer room

[citysig]

They are, to all intents and purposes, very similar computers, and all do more or less the same job - that is to manage the centralised signalling control of an area or areas.

Tom will probably know more about the origin of the nicknames, as he has worked closely with the old boys professionals who were around at the time all were commissioned. These trusted chaps have worked very closely indeed with all three.

Metal Mickey more than likely found its name when commissioned as a programme of the same name (featuring a large robot) was around at the time. Being only a youngster, I of course only have vague memories of the programme (but I suppose the fact I remember it at all makes me slightly older than I like to let on ;D )

Mummy and Daddy bear probably rose from someone or other in the old Computer Section. They are the proverbial parents of the system (and old enough to be grandparents as well ;D )

To treat the computers as living beings may well appear slightly odd. In fact I have often told trainees of the system in such a way you would think the machines actually talk. All I can say is that most people who have worked with them for any length of time will no doubt feel as though they do have some form of "life." One of them I will swear is in a bad mood for most of the time and will appear to act against you ;D

(and of course, that's why we can never clear OB31 when we want to )

EDIT: Just noticed Pat's post above (in between me writing this and posting it). I was always under the impression that Metal Mickey was the machine on the Picc. Tom will no doubt confirm.

[Tom]

Metal Mickey (or Evil Edna) were the two names given to the original control computers for the Wood Green - Cockfosters section of the picc. I believe the name applied more to the operator's interface rather than the computers themselves.

Mummy Bear and Daddy Bear are 529 and 530, the Met Line control computers. I always believed their names came from the physical size of them more than anything else. (And yes, each one does have it's name in Dymo Tape on the box, beneath it's official designation).

EDIT: Have a look at tinyurl.com/8ejma for a photo of one of the Bakerloo Line computers - it is of a similar phyiscal size to Mummy and Daddy Bear but handles a lot less data. Anorak Heaven has some pics of Metal Mickey at www.anorakheaven.com/district.htm.

[Deleted]

Fascinating info.

Which photo on Anorak Heaven is of Metal Mickey? I'm assuming that he lives in Earls Court SCC...

[Tom]

This is metal mickey:
www.anorakheaven.com/photos/ect_cr10.jpg
Some of the other photos show it with both names on the box.

[Deleted]

tom said:

This is metal mickey:
www.anorakheaven.com/photos/ect_cr10.jpg
Some of the other photos show it with both names on the box.

Thanks Tom. Nice to see Metal Mickey/Evil Edna 'in the flesh' if you know what I mean!
A machine that gave us train-crew on the Piccadilly LOADS of overtime in the first 6 months or so after it was installed. Total chaos as it did all sorts of strange things with the train service.

One incident I particularly remember was finally arriving at Cockfosters (around 20 minutes late after blocking back from Manor House) to be held there for over an hour! Both I and my guard relaxed contentedly on a bench while other trains (also running about 20 min late) arrived and departed. We still had 3 hours left to do, so didn't make a fuss.

[solidbond]

The story I always love about Metal Mickey was that it was salvaged from a US military computer, used for tracking incoming missiles. Once installed on the Picc, it tried to work in the same way, ie it tracked the first missile (train), waited to see what happened to it then, when the missile was destroyed (train left the area) the computer shut down ;D Total rubbish, but a good story nonetheless ;D ;D

[Deleted]

solidbond said:

The story I always love about Metal Mickey was that it was salvaged from a US military computer, used for tracking incoming missiles. Once installed on the Picc, it tried to work in the same way, ie it tracked the first missile (train), waited to see what happened to it then, when the missile was destroyed (train left the area) the computer shut down ;D Total rubbish, but a good story nonetheless ;D ;D

LOL! ;D ;D

[Deleted]

it dont look like that now in the earls court control room we dont have access up there no more but if i can get a more recent pic i will

[Tom]

Last time I was up there (1999) there were four PC's running win 3.11 running the desk. They've subsequently been moved out of the room, but still performing the same role.

Solidbond's story is partially true - the series of computers used were all used first by not only the US military, but also the British. The London Fire Brigade also had a suite of GEC4190's similar to Baker Street.

[Tomcakes]

I'd imagine these machines have about the same processing power as a low-end consumer desktop machine... does anyone happen to have any stats?

[Chris M]

Some quotes from weblinks I've found relating to GEC4190s in general or the Baker Street computers specifially:

"When originally commissioned, the hard disks were of a size (80MB) which was quite large at the time. But these have now been complemented with additional hard disks up to the limits of the existing operating systems (1 to 4GB in size)."

"Steve Mowbray, Unix system administrator at Heriot-Watt University, had extensive experience with GEC4190 computers at Manchester University, which, he said, ripped them out seven years ago because they were too old.
"I'm not sure why anybody is using these big old boxes. They are clunky, and a desktop PC is more powerful than one of those," he said.
However, analyst with Bloor Research, Martin Brampton, said, "Unless they do a radically different requirement today, then there is no good reason to rip them out." "

"4190 (1982)
The 4190 was basically a hardware tidy up of the 4090. The old 4082/4085 external memory crates for a 4Mb 4090 system required several 6 foot tall 19" racks, and this was all replaced with internal memory on the 4190 (using the same 32bit memory boards as the GEC Series 63). This enabled the system to address up to 16Mb of main memory. The instruction set and appearance of the machine was unchanged from the 4090 (except for loss of external memory racks).
A new I/O processor, the FMC, Fast Multiplexor Channel, was developed, and this was the first 32bit wide I/O processor. (The company never actually developed any 32bit controllers for the FMC, continuing to use the existing 16bit controllers in it. However, one customer did develop a 32bit controller for it - a fast parallel I/O card which could be used as an inter-machine link.) "
(from www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/geccl/4000series/processors.html)

[Tom]

I remember the FMC - I'm pretty certain there was something specific to them on either the control buttons or the LEDs on the crate. I think I've worked with 4195's as well. Oh and to reset them you always needed the same type of key as used for the NB siding keyswitch at Elephant. ;D

While they aren't particularly powerful, they have three appealing features: they're simple, reliable, and can work virtually in real time which I haven't yet found a Windows system to be able to do.

[Chris M]

Int he abscecne of complciations*, a computer will do what it did at the same speed it did, when you bought it, in theory until the hardware dies. Its only when you start asking it to do more that it gets in trouble.

*by "complications" I mean things like adding more programs to it, each with their own bugs; OS updates that introduce more features (each with their own bugs); viri; etc. In short, a closed system is a good system for long term operation.

Windows isn't designed for realtime operations, its designed for the average home/office user, where the most realtime thing their likely to do is chat online. Although I image VOIP might have a lower lag tollerance, I don't actually know?
AFAIK some linux installs do well at realtime work, and DOS can even do it to a certain extent (MUCH lower overheads than windows). Microcomputers (which is the proper generic term for PCs/Macs/etc) were the lowest level, basic computer. The signalling systems are run by Minicomputers (mini being true from a 1960s perspective), which are the mid range systems designed to handle things of this sort of scale, or running a supermaket type level. Upscaling you get to Mainframes and then ultimately Supercomputers.
Today high-end microcomputers have merged with minicomputers and are known in modern parlence as "midrange systems" or "servers".
[/history lesson]

[Tomcakes]

Indeed, I'm sure a pretty bog standard machine with a minimal Linux distro on would be an ideal replacement to such systems, and they would allow porting of the existing programs pretty easily one would guess? However, who knows with LU please don't say they'd use Windows for signalling control

[Deleted]

Actually, they do - I think Anorak Heaven has got photos of Neasden SCC's consoles. citysig has already made his views known on such technology...

[Tomcakes]

But whyyyyy? Surely a company like LU should be seeing sense and using reliable technology, not Windoze. I suppose it's different for workstations - people would probarbly moan if they didn't use Windoze for the beancounters to do their spreadsheets on, but for controlling signals reliably *shakes head and walks off in dismay*

[Deleted]

Well, if you spend a lot of time and money on it, you can get Windows somewhat unstable

Besides, they only use it for signalling control - which is a whole different pile of eggs to signalling interlocking.

[Tom]

theonekea said:

Actually, they do - I think Anorak Heaven has got photos of Neasden SCC's consoles. citysig has already made his views known on such technology...

As does Earl's Court - Metal Mickey has now been replaced at operator interface level with four PC's running Win 3.11. We started to go that way on the Bakerloo too, using industrial PC's for the Operator Interface.

[Deleted]

There are very quirks with Metal Mickey (and replacement) - you can't use one of the platforms at Arnos in a certain direction because there's a software fault.

The whole thing's now a pile of junk - but the Picc upgrade doesn't complete until 2014....

[Phil]

Ah, now that answers several questions from another thread!!!

Ta SP ;D ;D ;D ;D