Programme Machine rolls

[programmes1]

Does anyone know at what site the longest roll is and what length, it's just with the extra hours proposed will the machines be able to cope?

[c5]

programmes1 said:

Does anyone know at what site the longest roll is and what length

At a guess I reckon it might be one at Acton Town, lots of trains and reversers.... Dont know though!

programmes1 said:

it's just with the extra hours proposed will the machines be able to cope?

Extra Hours ..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ..... Luckily postponed!

[Harsig]

programmes1 said:

it's just with the extra hours proposed will the machines be able to cope?

The interesting issue isn't so much the length of the roll as the fact that the standard roll will have to carry four different timetables. At present it has only three; the Monday to Friday Service, the Saturday Service and the Sunday Service. (Monday to Thursday & Sunday nights the roll rewinds to the beginning. Friday & Saturday nights the roll is not rewound and just continues on to the next service)
With extended running the standard timetable roll will now need to contain a Monday - Thursday Timetable, a Friday Timetable, a Saturday Timetable and a Sunday Timetable

[Deleted]

the rolls have a maximum length because of the machine and most of the sites on the district this is already at there maximum at hammersmith they have installed new timing clocks which when the extended hours come in to place there is a switch on them to add another 2 hours but the machines will have to work in FCFS mode (First Come First Serve) which purely works on the trains TD and the extra clock also allows the machine not to step on to its end of service hole 376 as only push button works if the roll is on either 376(end of service) 375(beginning of service) 377 (roll has come off put fingers are engaged) but the rolls will still have a 3 service roll on them as theres not enough room for a 4 service
the shortest roll i have come across is S1 at earls court (route from olympia) it only has train numbers 151&152 on it

[citysig]

The generation of signalling control to follow on from programme machines also has difficulty in handling extra hours - although only when those hours are later (earlier?) than 0300hrs.

Currently it has to perform a "dump" and make itself ready for the next traffic day.

[JR 15secs]

S1 at Earls Court is 1.87m long compared to Acton S11 being 10.07m long.

[Deleted]

take your word for it
actually just thought S5,S6,S9,S10 at earls court have the shortest roll on the whole combine they dont have one they all fake machines and get there info from the machine previous

[c5]

And the ones at Heathrow are computers (I think?)
;D

[mrfs42]

relaydel said:

S1 at Earls Court is 1.87m long compared to Acton S11 being 10.07m long.

I know what S1 at Earl's Court looks after - what particular bit of the layout does Acton S11 control?

I'm sure I've got some notes as to the max. trains capacity of a programme roll - I think you can tinker with the inter-timetable interstices to gain a couple of extra lines at either end of the day, but not that much.

[programmes1]

EB Fast facing junction.

[Harsig]

mrfs42 said:

I'm sure I've got some notes as to the max. trains capacity of a programme roll - I think you can tinker with the inter-timetable interstices to gain a couple of extra lines at either end of the day, but not that much.

The information I have suggests that a roll of up to 50 feet (15m) can be accepted and this can contain over 1400 entries.

[angelislington]

Following on from that I've just been reading about 'double-step' programme machines - Edgware in particular:

S.3 This is a double step machine, the first step accepts trains from the depot or the northbound main line into platform 3. The second step controls the route from platform 3 to the depot or offers trains from platform 3 to programme machine S.1

Can anyone hazard a guess at to what the programme roll would look like (comparing the first and second lines)? I think you'd just have the ABCD code change, as this machine would initiate the reversing move.

S.1 in the peril looks after the southbound.

S.4 at Edgware is the same as S.3, but for platform 2 and on to S.1

S.5 the same but for road 16 and platform 1.

Are were? double-step machines used where you reverse on the same line (the 'gap' between the step allowing time for points to throw &c.) for example coming out of the siding at Edgware and waiting for the
points to throw to go south, or does the double-stepping enforce a two-minute layover time?

Reading this thread and the peril, I thought that double-stepping would effectively double the length of the roll, which got me thinking about other things too. ;D

[Deleted]

high st ken number 5 machine has a double step at certain times its just the same but the time on that one is 30secs later double stepping actually uses up more of the roll as the info for that particular train is on twice not just once
some machines like S8 at earls court also double step this is if they change there minds at a train which is suppose to go into platform 4 at earls court but goes into number 3 from gloucester road this makes S8 double step so it keeps the roll in order thats if u get a signal operator who knows what there doing and keeping a eye on the machines

[angelislington]

aetearlscourt said:

high st ken number 5 machine has a double step at certain times its just the same but the time on that one is 30secs later double stepping actually uses up more of the roll as the info for that particular train is on twice not just once

What does S5 at High St. Ken control? Does it allow a 'rethink' out of the bay when it double steps?

aetearlscourt said:

some machines like S8 at earls court also double step this is if they change there minds at a train which is suppose to go into platform 4 at earls court but goes into number 3 from gloucester road this makes S8 double step so it keeps the roll in order thats if u get a signal operator who knows what there doing and keeping a eye on the machines

Does it only double step if the regulator connects it to the desk - rather than doing it all by itself? The Edgware ones seems to imply in the peril that they do it by themselves and are designed to do.

[Deleted]

it does it by itself S8 if they cancel a number on S4 (from gloucester road also from earls court yard) if not as always the signal operator can do a train cancel to knock off the number

cant remember what S5 controls i can only remember it as when i go around changing the rolls for special timetables you can see a few double trains on it

[JR 15secs]

Here is the details of rolls and machines Edgware programme machines

Roll lengths
S1 7.39
S2 1.84
S3 5.68
S4 5.61
S5 5.25
S9 7.37
S7 7.39


Programme routes
S1
611 from plat 3
612 from plat 2
613 from plat 1
614 from plat 1 ex 16 sdg

S2
611 to plat 2
612 to plat 3
613 time step

S3
611 from NB main
612 to SB main
613 from depot
614 to depot

S4
611 from NB main
612 to SB main
613 from depot
614 to depot

S5
611 from NB main
612 to SB main
613 from 16 sdg
614 to 16 sdg

S7
611 to plat 1
612 to plat 2
613 to plat 3
614 to plat 1 16 sdg

1965
S1 plats to SB
S2 from depot plat 2 or 3 in assoc S4/S3
S3 plat 3 SB or depot (double step)
S4 plat 2 SB or depot (double step)
S5 plat 3 SB or 16 sdg to/from (double step)
S6 TD & plat sequence for SB trains
S7 NB all plats in assoc S3/S4/S5

1971 transfer to Cobourg Street
machines re-numbered
Old new
1 1
2 4
3 3
4 5
5 7
6 9
7 2

[angelislington]

Gosh, thank-you very much! I'm busy reading the '65 peril as I type.

What's the approximate date of the roll lengths? - presumably current since the transfer to Cobourg St?

Seems obvious, perhaps, but the '71 renumbering of the machines: was this done to make them fit in with a standard scheme - I'm thinking of drawer/button numbering at Cobourg St. here.

[Deleted]

no was to keep the eastbound and the westbound with odd and even numbers respectivly

[mrfs42]

<gets home after a brief sojourn in Kent and a temporary gender change >

Reads 1971 peril about Edgware control going from Golders to Cobourg St. Oh yes! It all makes sense now.

Reading between the lines - para B7 - second step machines are referred to as the 'platform machines' in the 1971 peril - are they still double step now?

[JR 15secs]

mrfs42 said:

<gets home after a brief sojourn in Kent and a temporary gender change >

Reads 1971 peril about Edgware control going from Golders to Cobourg St. Oh yes! It all makes sense now.

Reading between the lines - para B7 - second step machines are referred to as the 'platform machines' in the 1971 peril - are they still double step now?

As far as I know yes but I don't work for Tubelines any more will check with a contact next week.

[programmes1]

Thanks guys for the input look forward to any more info.