Euston Square concourse and lifts

[dmncf]

It's great to see the two lifts at the south end of Euston Square station have finally been activated: a lift from street level to concourse level, and a lift from concourse level to westbound platform. The removal of the construction hoardings has also created an impressive amount of concourse space at the south end, and highlighted how cramped the north and centre of the concourse are with the ticket office, ticket machines and gateline.
Are any further works planned to make the north and centre of the concourse less cramped, for example by reconfiguring the ticket office or gateline? Will the lift between concourse level and the westbound platform remain on the unpaid side of the gateline?

[malcolmffc]

The platforms themselves are in dire need of refurbishment. Euston Sq has got to be the most scuzzy station in Zone 1 now that Kings' X and Tower Hill have been done up.

[londonstuff]

Jan 30, 2011 10:13:03 GMT malcolmffc said:

The platforms themselves are in dire need of refurbishment. Euston Sq has got to be the most scuzzy station in Zone 1 now that Kings' X and Tower Hill have been done up.

I'd have to agree with you there, Euston Square really is skanky. The other really grim station that comes to mind in Zone 1 is Old Street which is mingsville both in terms of the station condition and architecture but also with the tramps and lowlife characters that hang around the place.

[railtechnician]

Jan 30, 2011 10:47:15 GMT londonstuff said:

Jan 30, 2011 10:13:03 GMT malcolmffc said:

The platforms themselves are in dire need of refurbishment. Euston Sq has got to be the most scuzzy station in Zone 1 now that Kings' X and Tower Hill have been done up.

I'd have to agree with you there, Euston Square really is skanky. The other really grim station that comes to mind in Zone 1 is Old Street which is mingsville both in terms of the station condition and architecture but also with the tramps and lowlife characters that hang around the place.

Euston Square could have done with some serious rebuilding for a long time. My recollection of working there on an off for around 12 years was just how low the ceiling in the ticket hall was/is. An absolute nightmare as I recall when installing cameras and loudspeakers years ago and when running various cables for the UTS upgrade to the ticket office in the 1980s. My recollection is that it had a partial makeover in the early 1980s but that was just cosmetic, a rebuild would be a much better idea but I doubt there is the money for that or the inclination.

Ah yes I have memories of Old Street and its lowlifes though they are OT here in SSR discussion!

[Deleted]

The Wellcome Trust have provided the 2 lifts and the rebuild of the Gower Street Exit/ entrance.

Metronet were then supposed to fit the new Station Supervisors Office - located opposite the lifts - and a new ticket office - which was supposed to to be between the 2 lifts at the ticket hall level. Then install a new gateline around the lifts/ new ticket office. The old ticket office and the old station supervisors were supposed to be demolished and new lifts to the Eastbound platforms built with the resulting space opened up to relieve the congestion at the Euston Road eit/ entrance.

There is no money for any of the Metronet works and at present the only "possible" is the gateline adjusted BUT that is a very low priority.

The lift that goes to the platform level, has an emergency exit only level which in the case of an fire panel evacuation goes to street level, via an emergency only exit straight onto the Euston Road.

[Deleted]

To be honest I like Euston Square down at platform level etc, it just needs a deep clean

[21146]

I presume the grey & orange tiling around the staircase areas is from the 1920s Met Rly rebuild by H C Clark and is worthy of preservation (as was the surface building) but I guess the rest of the station is too far altered to warrant a 'heritage' reprieve from further work when funds allow.

Also of note is the section of 6" square "Victoria Line" tiling at the tailwall of the W/B platform where they have used 4 or 5 different shades of grey whilst trying to match the originals.

[Deleted]

I thought that the miss matching of grey tiling was where they were replacing individual tiles because one might have got damaged. The lighter shades being the newer ones

[21146]

Yes - later replacement. But I would have thought not too difficult to match correctly.

[Deleted]

I just thought the darker ones were older

[Deleted]

Euston Square does have mis-matched wall tiling in various areas. The platform floor tiling is also very uneven - apart from some sections which appear to have been renewed fairly recently and are rather better.

[railtechnician]

Jan 30, 2011 17:44:45 GMT @21146 said:

I presume the grey & orange tiling around the staircase areas is from the 1920s Met Rly rebuild by H C Clark and is worthy of preservation (as was the surface building) but I guess the rest of the station is too far altered to warrant a 'heritage' reprieve from further work when funds allow.

Also of note is the section of 6" square "Victoria Line" tiling at the tailwall of the W/B platform where they have used 4 or 5 different shades of grey whilst trying to match the originals.

Ah well the grey tiling is around the relay room addition to the platform, this is not original infrastructure. I'm not sure when it was built but certainly in the 1970s it was customary for the building department to use up whatever material it had available, hence Victoria line tiles have cropped up elsewhere. Of course the building department suffered its demise in the 1980s, the internal market made it ridiculously uncompetitive.

There are many such infrastructure addon examples across the combine but another that springs readily to mind is at Sloane Square although it has been there so long it has melted into the background for all but those who have to gain access to maintain the cabling in the very narrow passageway left behind it.
Of course Embankment has to stand out in this regard as much that was still exposed in the 1970s was covered up in the 1980s and 1990s and even before that the great expanse of platform area on both platforms has gradually been squeezed down to what can be seen today. Certainly on the eastbound platform it was/is still possible to see the original back of platform wall via access from the non-public areas below ticket hall level. The ticket hall is also somewhat reduced in size from the original as the office complex and ticket office did not exist in the ticket hall as originally built.
There is so so much hidden behind the platform walls at Embankment just as there is at many other sites.

[mcmaddog]

railtechnician - that's really intersting to hear about Embankment. It's such a busy station and I feel it gets uncomfortably full on the narrow platforms. What a shame then that they could be widened but aren't.

[Ben]

Have to dissagree with you Bronzeonion, having used it a few times its just plain grotty. Don't get me wrong, its all about being thrifty and practical, but its doesnt seem like its in good condition. Put it this way, stations in a far better state have been pulled apart and given inferior refurbishments. The ticket office as also extremely cramped. The wide-gate is shoved in what looks like the former corner of a room by a giant pillar. Perhaps as stated they're waiting for a total rebuild of Euston from HS2. Could be an interesting project combining and renovating all of it. However the Grey/orange tiling would no doubt be destroyed. Pity because if it is 40 years older than the rest of it its certainly of a higher quality and standard. Looks to be in far better nick.

Is water ingress a big problem there, like at GPS? Am I right in thinking the last major building work to have taken place was in the 60s as a result of cracking to the tunnel arch?

[Deleted]

I just think the place needs a good clean, brightening it up abit will help alot

[Deleted]

The water ingress at Euston Square is not as bad as GPS.

[malcolmffc]

Wasn't there supposed to be a "Euston Interchange Plan" to link Euston and Euston Square? Presumably that canned when Metronet went under?

[Deleted]

That would have been bloody useful

[londonstuff]

Jan 31, 2011 19:21:57 GMT malcolmffc said:

Wasn't there supposed to be a "Euston Interchange Plan" to link Euston and Euston Square? Presumably that canned when Metronet went under?

I knew I'd heard that before somewhere. It'd be hugely useful to have mainline Euston connected properly to the H&C and Circle.

<says naïvely> It's only a short tunnel, I'll dig it if you want </naïve>

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2011 19:40:59 GMT @bronzeonion said:

That would have been bloody useful

Agreed!!

[railtechnician]

Jan 31, 2011 19:21:57 GMT malcolmffc said:

Wasn't there supposed to be a "Euston Interchange Plan" to link Euston and Euston Square? Presumably that canned when Metronet went under?

Such a connection has existed for years but it is only a cable route between the two stations AIUI. It's one of those things I have long been aware of but never got the opportunity to explore (though I explored many others in the course of my work) so I cannot say whether or not it is a tunnel or simply cable ducts. Euston itself and its various connections are an absolute warren on more than one level which I have explored in the course of various installation projects and maintenance activities during many years with LT.

Great Portland Street also had such a route to the old Osnaburgh Street LT offices on the other side of Euston Road. There are many such 'shortcut' connections on the system, for instance the two Hammersmith stations are similarly connected.

[londonstuff]

Jan 31, 2011 20:27:56 GMT railtechnician said:

Jan 31, 2011 19:21:57 GMT malcolmffc said:

Wasn't there supposed to be a "Euston Interchange Plan" to link Euston and Euston Square? Presumably that canned when Metronet went under?

Such a connection has existed for years but it is only a cable route between the two stations AIUI. It's one of those things I have long been aware of but never got the opportunity to explore (though I explored many others in the course of my work) so I cannot say whether or not it is a tunnel or simply cable ducts. Euston itself and its various connections are an absolute warren on more than one level which I have explored in the course of various installation projects and maintenance activities during many years with LT.

Great Portland Street also had such a route to the old Osnaburgh Street LT offices on the other side of Euston Road. There are many such 'shortcut' connections on the system, for instance the two Hammersmith stations are similarly connected.

Wow, that's immense!

Slightly OT but where was the place that surprised you most with the amount of hidden back area stuff?

[Deleted]

Jan 31, 2011 18:37:18 GMT @centralsimon said:

The water ingress at Euston Square is not as bad as GPS.

There is certainly a place, on the western end of the platforms at ES, where you can hear running water

[Deleted]

It's more a statement about how bad GPS is rather than how dry ESQ is.

I was always told that the wooden cabinets located on the Westbound platform at ESQ was COMMS between ESQ and the Northern Line with cables running along the Northern Line tunnel to Euston. Not sure how that is geographically, maybe I'm just gulliable.

Was also told a similar cabinet at GPS, again on the westbound platform but in the "modern" cladding was a link between the LU and NR telephone systems. Again maybe I'm just gulliable.

[dmncf]

Jan 30, 2011 13:11:01 GMT @centralsimon said:

The Wellcome Trust have provided the 2 lifts and the rebuild of the Gower Street Exit/ entrance.

Metronet were then supposed to fit the new Station Supervisors Office - located opposite the lifts - and a new ticket office - which was supposed to to be between the 2 lifts at the ticket hall level. Then install a new gateline around the lifts/ new ticket office. The old ticket office and the old station supervisors were supposed to be demolished and new lifts to the Eastbound platforms built with the resulting space opened up to relieve the congestion at the Euston Road eit/ entrance.

Wow - the plans were more comprehensive than I realised! The plan to relocate the station supervisor's office and ticket office explains the generous space created at the south end of the concourse. I had no idea that the plan went a step further to introduce step free access to the eastbound platform.
It's interesting that the plans included a new ticket office. I am aware that other station rebuilds planned around the same period, such as Cannon Street, removed the ticket office.

[andypurk]

Jan 31, 2011 19:21:57 GMT malcolmffc said:

Wasn't there supposed to be a "Euston Interchange Plan" to link Euston and Euston Square? Presumably that canned when Metronet went under?

Such a link is certainly mentioned in the plans for High Speed 2, but I'm not sure I've seen any definite plans for a link before then.

It will be quite expensive to construct, given the shallow depth of the Sub-Surface line platforms below Euston Road and the layout of the surrounding buildings.

[railtechnician]

Jan 31, 2011 21:10:29 GMT @centralsimon said:

It's more a statement about how bad GPS is rather than how dry ESQ is.

I was always told that the wooden cabinets located on the Westbound platform at ESQ was COMMS between ESQ and the Northern Line with cables running along the Northern Line tunnel to Euston. Not sure how that is geographically, maybe I'm just gulliable.

Was also told a similar cabinet at GPS, again on the westbound platform but in the "modern" cladding was a link between the LU and NR telephone systems. Again maybe I'm just gulliable.

You are not gullible! There most definitely are direct comms cables between Euston Square and Northern line, I have routed lines that way though it was years ago. The way the old LT telephone network was set up it was not always necessary to investigate/attend every cross connection point as cables were originally 'jumpered through' when installed and we could 'tap' new lines through several stations at once before having to make connections, thus I didn't always 'see' all the detail of the infrastructure. I can recall tapping lines off the Met/Circle through to Cobourg Street control complex.

I'm not sure about the NR/LT connection at GPS but I have no reason to doubt it, there are many such connections around the Circle line. The wooden doors beneath the stairs at the back end of Baker Street platform 6 have the NR main distribution frame (MDF) which connects to the Chiltern line from the NR ring that runs right around the Circle to link all the main London terminal stations. I installed the then new Chiltern line Train Radio landline cable from there to Amersham in the 1980s. At Kings Cross the NR connection is an old BR kiosk, trackside at the back of the toilets near the Met IMR, at Liverpool Street the connection is actually on the mainline station, in the NR CER nearest the Circle outer rail platform.

The NR copper ring cable was installed AFAIK sometime in the 1960s and carries/carried multiplex transmission systems (carrier/PCM) as well as plain telephone lines and miscellaneous circuits. However, there have been other organisations cables carried via LT tunnels since before WW2. The tradition continues, I surveyed the entire Circle Line some years ago to link all the London NR terminii by a 48 fibre, fibre optic cable, which was principally to carry NR CCTV. Some of the connection sites were quite hairy i.e. at Cannon Street routing from the Circle to NR which involved installing a long and very vertical trunking route up to street level from a room on the inner (IIRC) rail platform. At Moorgate a 20 fibre spur was run from the NR platforms 5/6 via the disused passageway past the old Northern Line lifts to platforms 7/8. Embankment was another difficult 'vertical' trunking route to Charing Cross NR via the bridge above.

Rebuilding plans at Victoria (don't know if they were followed through) had to take account of the London Hospital ring cable that connects the London hospitals via the Circle. These days you'll find other Telco fibre optic cables all over the system. I was involved in running a Mercury cable from Sheperd's Bush Central Line platform invert to Hammersmith H&C in the late 1980s, this was a continuous cable with no joints run via the disused Wood Lane platform and up onto the Met viaduct run in a single shift which took the whole of South Kensington signal installation staff and managers (the depot manager was pulling the cable off the lorry mounted drum himself) and my own comms team helping out to repay a favour.

Of course there is much to see behind the scenes at Embankment as the long disused susbstation beneath the District line eastbound platform and current street level substation is the 'conduit' that connects the District and Bakerloo lines via the notorious "Pages Walk" and via vertical cable shaft to the Northern line platform inverts.

[railtechnician]

Jan 31, 2011 20:34:12 GMT londonstuff said:

Slightly OT but where was the place that surprised you most with the amount of hidden back area stuff?

That's hard to say, in almost 30 years on the system I worked at just about every station, apart from JLE sites, most substations, offices, and even the odd bus premises. The combine was and still is full of 'warrens'. Of course these days what exists is not as obvious as it once was due to fire compartmentation that has been implemented since the Kings Cross fire. I guess the first that I recall encountering was Bond Street which had/has lots of non-public area. Embankment has always been a favourite as I spent around two years working from there and having a base on the station itself, I ran lots of cable there from 1979-1980 and so I know cable routes through there that many have long since forgotten, I was fascinated by the disused substation, the disused escalator chamber, rooms off the lower concourse etc etc, there are also the 'Festival Steps' and other 'attractions' behind the scenes.

Baker Street is another place where I spent lots of time working on many projects and Liverpool Street is another, both have many disused areas all of which I managed to explore as an installer or asset surveyor.

Its OT but there are plenty of such places especially in the central area such as at Holborn, Waterloo, Leicester Square, Euston and Moorgate but out of town were equally interesting, Manor House, Stockwell, Kennington and the long cable tunnels on the Central line eastern extension. Paddington was another quite interesting site although some of what I explored was NR property such as the postal tunnel which connected to all the mainline platforms via the now long disused lifts and one or two of the NR electrical switchrooms there.

[21146]

Whilst I'm not a Mod on here it occurs to me we should sometimes not be too-specific when posting details of LU/NR Comms networks that may still be in use and would provide excellent targets for terrorists should they be able to ascertain which key points to take out.

[Deleted]

But it makes for such good reading ;D ;D ;D