District and H & C Lines

[rojol]

I hope someone there maintains an interest in MSTS as I am toying with the London, Tilbury and South-end route which as you may know includes a nice section of District line from Upminster to Bow LTE. I am using the beautiful R49 stock as the basis of my traffic. My only criticism of them is that some of the drivers (or is it the trailers) don't sit square to each other, but thats nit picking, a scale 8" or so.

My problem is, the Hammersmith and City trains. As I remember, they used different stock (older) to the District in the period I am working on (transition from steam to diesel, late 50's early 60's). Somewhere in the back of my mind (waiting on Mile End), a clerestory roof is ringing bells. It seems nothing is available. To be within period I guess I could use 60/62 stock of which there is an example on MSTS, however they don't have H&C destination panels (did H&C ever use them) and I haven't a clue on how to change them (a newbie train simmer). I am not a rivet counter by any means but if possible I would like to be in keeping of how it was back then and I think the District would have replaced the R49 stock before H & C began using the 60/62 stock.

Any ideas would be welcome

Regards

Rojol

[Ben]

Welcome to the forum!

Few points to make, the A60/62 was used exclusively on the Met Main (&ELL), not the H&C, District or Circle as it was marginally too wide.

The H&C got C69 stock (the current one used), displacing the CO/CP stock (the red flared bottom trains) to the district, enabling the Q stock there to be withdrawn. The Q stock mostly had clerestory roofs. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?

Hope this helps!

[Deleted]

At the time you are modelling (late 50's early 60's) the H&C used O/P stock. The District had R stock (in its various sub-types), most of which would I think have been red at that time (can't remember when it all went silver) and Q stock (of its various types): the Q38 had flared bottoms, as did the O/P & R, but all the earlier variants had flat sides and clerestory roofs, every train having a good mix of variants.

[Deleted]

Welcome Rojol,

There would have been a couple of the unpainted R stock trains floating around at that time, the rest were red (there's a red R stock available at UKtrainsim). This stock was painted white around the early 70's to distinguish them from the arriving CO/CP stock for operational purposes.

There aren't, to my knowledge any MSTS Q stock units to download but as some coaches in the consists were of the flare-sided type (built in the late 1930's to bolster the length of District trains) using the red R units will be fairly authentic.

The R stock lasted until 1983, the CO/CPs went in 1981 after the arrival of the D stock units.

I've always had problems downloading the LTS line. Though the Great Eastern keeps me more than busy.

[norbitonflyer]

According to Brian Hardy's book one complete 8-car train of R49 stock, plus one odd NDM, were delivered in unpainted aluminium with a red waistband, as were all three trains of R59 stock. However they were often reformed (they were inteneded to run as 6-car in the off peak and 8-car in the peak) so red and silver in the same train was quite common.

It would appear from Hardy's book that removal of paint from the aluminium cars that had been painted (and, later, painting the steel ones to match) had not started by 1959

The Q stock which worked alongside the R stock until 1971 was a mixture of Q38 cars having a similar profile to the O/P/R stocks and converted G, K, L, and M/N stock (Q23, Q27, Q31 and Q35). All converted stock had clerestory roofs, tapered off at the car ends except for the G (Q23) stock which had a distinctive "Dutch gable" end profile. Mixed formations were the norm, by 1955 all motor coaches were Q23, Q27 or Q38, and the trailers were Q31, Q35 or Q38.

The arrival of the C stock on the H&C and Circle allowed a cascade of CO/CP stock to the District, dispacing the Q stock.

[Bighat]

Feb 2, 2011 20:52:00 GMT norbitonflyer said:

According to Brian Hardy's book one complete 8-car train of R49 stock, plus one odd NDM, were delivered in unpainted aluminium with a red waistband, as were all three trains of R59 stock. However they were often reformed (they were inteneded to run as 6-car in the off peak and 8-car in the peak) so red and silver in the same train was quite common.

It would appear from Hardy's book that removal of paint from the aluminium cars that had been painted (and, later, painting the steel ones to match) had not started by 1959

The Q stock which worked alongside the R stock until 1971 was a mixture of Q38 cars having a similar profile to the O/P/R stocks and converted G, K, L, and M/N stock (Q23, Q27, Q31 and Q35). All converted stock had clerestory roofs, tapered off at the car ends except for the G (Q23) stock which had a distinctive "Dutch gable" end profile. Mixed formations were the norm, by 1955 all motor coaches were Q23, Q27 or Q38, and the trailers were Q31, Q35 or Q38.

The arrival of the C stock on the H&C and Circle allowed a cascade of CO/CP stock to the District, dispacing the Q stock.

The 'original' unpainted R49 train was 21146+23247+23346+23446+23581+22679+23582+22680.

Car 23567 was also delivered unpainted, but operated intermixed with othe painted R stock cars.