Signalling Displays

[Deleted]

Often wondered...

Inter-running between National Rail and LU trains. How would the LU train appear on the NR signallers diagram between say Gunnersbury and Richmond? NR use 4 charachter discriptions, thus 1D38, 2P57 etc... Would an LU train appear as 0033 [as t033 for 'us'] or what?

[Colin]

My understanding is that on the Wimbledon branch, the NR signaller can 'see' our numbers; on the Richmond branch, the signalller 'sees' a converted number (as in converted to the NR system of number/letter/number/number).

When we speak to them on the SPT though, we just say District 56 or District 5 or whatever we are.

In the case of Wimbledon, the 'box' is remote from the branch, where as Richmond box is of course lineside - one way or another we all muddle through ;D ;D

[Deleted]

Hmm, interesting perspective - must lead to confusion at times. Quite how Earls Ct would 'see' an NR train if it tresspassed at Gunnersbury and turned right...

In perspective, Eurostar Trains, have a reporting number of 9012, 9042, 9056 etc and this is also what is seen on 'box track displays, play also the announcements at Ashford Intl say the same too! but this reporting number is not really advertised to the pax!

[c5]

If a NR train came for a little visit then it would look the same as the other trains - A red light!

COLIN is correct, the Districts are given a modified train number/reporting code.
I think from memory at Wimbledon it is the train number then City or Edgware, so 74 would be 0E74 and 121 to Upminster would be 1C21. I'll find out.


I'm sure Gunnersbury uses the same train number (as does the NR/Bakerloo section)

[Deleted]

At Richmond I thought trains became 2Uxx...

[c5]

The ones to Wimbledon are City for City then the Train Number or E for Edg. Rd then the Train Number. Ie C002 or E162.

[Tomcakes]

How does that work? I'm pretty sure that headcodes can only be 4 digits... 1A01, 2J56 etc. So whilst 1C02 would be fine, 1E162 wouldnt.

Letters meanings vary, whilst in the Wimbledon area E may have one meaning, elsewhere it will have several others.

[markt]

tubeoperator92 said:

Hmm, interesting perspective - must lead to confusion at times. Quite how Earls Ct would 'see' an NR train if it tresspassed at Gunnersbury and turned right...

In perspective, Eurostar Trains, have a reporting number of 9012, 9042, 9056 etc and this is also what is seen on 'box track displays, play also the announcements at Ashford Intl say the same too! but this reporting number is not really advertised to the pax!

Eurostar train numbers are quoted on the displays at St Pancras for the passengers...

When running on NR tracks the zero became an O and the 1 became an I - 9O12 in your example above.

Pretty sure Wimbledon LUL appears as 2Ixx on the train describer screens - will check once I get to work...

[Tom]

c5 said:

The ones to Wimbledon are City for City then the Train Number or E for Edg. Rd then the Train Number. Ie C002 or E162.

Same on the Bakerloo - J stood for Harrow IIRC.

[Deleted]

Ahh, thanks guys... settled another long-standing curiosity of mine...

[markt]

Finally managed to get our system to work at work.

All trains show as xIxx - the first digit varies between 1, 2, 6, 7 and 8 - the last two as normal for NR signalling.

7I61 is shown as "16:21 East Putney - East Putney" on TOPS - departs Wimbledon 16:45:30 - maybe some of the District train ops will know this one?

The 1s and 2s are more regular then the 6, 7s and 8.

5O96 is 16:28 Wimbledon Park - Waterloo.

Apologies for size, tried to shrink it down for the forum, click for bigger.

[coyote]

1 = City train
2 = Edgware Rd
3 = High St Ken
4 = Earls Court
5 = Parsons Green
6 = City train
7 = Edgware Road
8 = High St Ken
9 = Earls Court

I = LUL train
Last two digits are the last two digits of train number

[c5]

On LUL 8 and 9 are not used for train numbers and on the District 374 would be the highest [train] number possible.

Thanks Mark for doing that, I was trying to remember what they saw of the trains at Wimbledon. The previous answer I gave was based on the data input to WARS.

So what about when it is 121 or 21? The Headcode would be the same then???

[Colin]

Having had a quick look at the image above - it screams at me:

East Putney west: Train 161
East Putney East: Train 36

Wimbledon Park east: SWT

Outside Wimbledon west: Train 70
Outside Wimbledon east: Train 76

Wimbledon P1: Train 14
Wimbledon P2: Train 37
Wimbledon P3: Train 77

So if you think about it, trains in the 1xx series are obvious!! They're either a 6 or 7

5xxx trains are defo SWT ones.

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2008 22:48:56 GMT Tom said:

Same on the Bakerloo - J stood for Harrow IIRC.

Having just come across this thread I just had to add something. There is a little more logic in the Bakerloo link the use of a route code was adopted in 1988 when the then new box at Willesden Suburban was opened and an up to date train describer was introduced. This as in the era before TRUST (Train RUnning System on TOPS) was extended to services operated by multiple units. The routing codes were the letter in the 2nd position of the train reporting number and were as follows:

Passenger Services

A - Elephant & Castle
B - Lambeth North
C - Waterloo
D - Piccadilly Circus
E - Paddington
F - Queens Park
G - Kensal Green (SB Terminating and empty to Queens Park North Shed)
H - Willesden Junction
I - Stonebridge Park
J - Harrow & Wealdstone
K - Not used
L - Not used
M - Kilburn High Road

Empty Services

N - Elephant & Castle
O - London Road Depot
P - Paddington
Q - Queens Park
R - Willesden Junction
S - Stonebridge Park Depot
T - Harrow & Wealdstone
U - Not used
V - Not used
W - Kilburn High Road
X - Not used
Y - Not used
Z - Special

As the Bakerloo was using the 2xx series numbers by then the train description seen in the train describer would be letter and 3 numbers e.g. A206 - train 206 to Elephant & Castle, K223 - train 223 to Harrow & Wealdstone or W207 - train 207 empty to Kilburn High Road. A piece of software was included to convert the displayed number to the standard format description as used by TRUST. These codes were used for some 2 years until the class 2 services were included in TRUST including LUL services. The TRUST schedules for Bakerloo services are in the normal format for train reporting in that train 206 to Stonebridge Park is still described as J206 on the panel but the TRUST schedule is under the ID of 2J06. At about that time it was found that the letter code A for Elephant & Castle meant that their were vast numbers of TRUST schedules with 2Axx ID's both on the Bakerloo and Main Line to Euston. It was decided to replace the A code with K as then unused as it would create a separate series of numbers. Over the years this has worked extremely well and is well understood by all those using it, indeed the signalling to the Bakerloo at Queens Park and the depot reception at Stonebridge Park requires the correct format of train description to enable the signal to clear. During 2007 the train ID's on the mainline were amended from 2Axx to a new system which included 2Kxx and therefore the decision was taken to revert to 2Axx codes for Elepahant & Castle. It will be noted that the original codes were developed after the Bakerloo was withdrawn from north of Harrow & Wealdstone and as such L, M, U and V are still unused pending any future plans.

[mrfs42]

Ah, now that helps sort out another form of miasma altogether! Cheers.